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There is objective morality
in Philosophy
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@Mike
Thanks for the info, I didn't know about the constructal law. Very interesting.
Unfortunately, I have to disagree with the conclusions in that article. There is science to show that the unalienable rights are requisite for life, not that life is automatically entitled to them. Entitlement is not a scientific concept.
Which is besides the point. Your main argument conflates morality with the survival of humans. Which, in general that's usually what we mean when we say morality. But this social construct was invented by us to preserve our own interests (survival). That is nearly the definition of subjective.
Your work is ahead of you to show that the survival of humans is morally good, and show the objective standard that dictates this.
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Under a system of perfectly free commerce, each country naturally devotes its capital and labour to such employments as are most beneficial to each. This pursuit of individual advantage is admirably connected with the universal good of the whole. By stimulating industry, by regarding ingenuity, and by using most efficaciously the peculiar powers bestowed by nature, it distributes labour most effectively and most economically.
- David Ricardo
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Per dictionary.com
"not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased: "
1. objective morality would need to be uninfluenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice.
2. human morality is based on their personal interest in survival.
3. therefore, human morality is subjective.
You'll need to prove premise 2 to be false.
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Under a system of perfectly free commerce, each country naturally devotes its capital and labour to such employments as are most beneficial to each. This pursuit of individual advantage is admirably connected with the universal good of the whole. By stimulating industry, by regarding ingenuity, and by using most efficaciously the peculiar powers bestowed by nature, it distributes labour most effectively and most economically.
- David Ricardo
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My stance is that morality is subjective, not objective.
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Objective: of or relating to something that can be known, or to something that is an object or a part of an object; existing independent of thought or an observer as part of reality.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/objective
Morality: conformity to the rules of right conduct; moral or virtuous conduct.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/morality
Conduct: personal behavior; way of acting; bearing or deportment.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/conduct
Conformity: action in accord with prevailing social standards, attitudes, practices, etc.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/conformity
Virtuoso: conforming to moral and ethical principles; morally excellent; upright
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/virtuous
Principe: an accepted or professed rule of action or conduct:
a fundamental, primary, or general law or truth from which others are derived:
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/principle
Dictionary.com seems to say Morality is mostly what society thinks but is also says objective relates to something independent of thought. I think DIctionary.com says Morality cannot be Objective. I am going to check Webster dictionary now. : )
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Objective: relating to or existing as an object of thought without consideration of independent existence —used chiefly in medieval philosophy
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/objective
This is one of the definitions and is the most promising.
Morality: a doctrine or system of moral conduct
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/morality
Conduct: a mode or standard of personal behavior especially as based on moral principles
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conduct
Doctrine: a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/doctrine
Principle: a comprehensive and fundamental law, doctrine, or assumption
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/principle
I am not sure about this one. I don't think when you say objective you are taking about the medieval philosophy so a think no I cannot prove Morality can be Objective.
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@SkepticalOne
Conduct is the way you treat people. Morality is the distinction between malevolence and benevolence.
You can say that it's morally good to treat people nicely, but have no objective standard to say it is morally good.
Protecting children certainly is a self preserving trait. it's evolutionarily beneficial for obvious reasons. Species that do not protect vulnerable offspring do not last.
Speaking more generally, people do nice things because it makes them feel good. It's a self interest.
Besides, you haven't shown an objective standard on which to base the statement, "helping people is morally good".
Whether saving the child from the bully is good for me, or only good for the child, either way, it is only subjectively good, not objectively.
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Objective, adj: not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased:
Subjective, adj: existing in the mind; belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of thought (opposed to objective ).
To say something is objectively morally good, means it is morally good regardless of anyone's opinions of it.
When we say it's morally wrong to kill someone, the standard we use to say that is most people think its bad. Its biased based on peoples thoughts.
Objective moral benevolence would have to have a definition that transcends humankind that would be true even in the absence of human kind.
Moral benevolence simply means most people agree that's its good. This is a subjective view point.
I'm looking for objective, unbiased criteria to differentiate between a good moral and a bad moral.
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Thus, if there is objective morality I do not want to know of it as I much prefer making my own moral code that always paints me as the good guy.
Checkmate.
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If morality becomes objective, morality will become suffocating. People will impose the objective morality on people who refuse to abide by it. There will be a new form of oppression and imposition that limits the plurality of individual subjectivities.
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(1) Select the behaviour you consider to be most morally repugnant: (i.e., rape, shooting school kids for fun, racist hate, subordinating women, etc...)
(2) Say the following (where you fill in the blanks with what you chose in (1): _______ isn't really wrong, it is just my personal opinion that this is repugnant. While I wouldn't do _______, any one who does _______ isn't really doing anything wrong. In fact, those who do ______ and me, who values the opposite of ________, are moral equals.
(3) If you disagree with the statement in (2), you believe in objective moral values!
(4) If you agree with the statement in (2), repeat steps (1) and (2) while really thinking about what you are endorsing, until you arrive at (3).
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Both are notional/conceptual. As are true morals.
Enforced morals cease to be notional and become legislative and oppressive.
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Say we as humans tried to explain a murder to an alien being who understood our language and we said “ murder is wrong “ and he asked “what is wrongness as in what makes it wrong , what is this property “ wrongness “ ?
If something is an objective moral fact it’s a fact independent of us so it’s “ out their “ how do we explain or detect this wrongness ?
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You say ......Aliens are superior to us in comprehending morality. They are beyond us both in IQ and political sophistication in fairness of their democracy. You are disrespecting their intelligence thinking they don't comprehend moral wrong.
Why don’t you actually debate instead of trolling ? Incidentally I reported and posted your vicious message earlier to my post
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What you will find in the long run is that reporting me doesn't make what I say any less true and when I return later on, the new generation is more than happy to welcome me even if they hate me because I debate with such insane skill and comprehension of both sides that they can't help but admire me.
You should not criticise aliens who I doubt have even contacted you. They will not be so kind to you if they meet you in the afterlife (if there is one).
Do you think angels and demons are Earthly? Don't amuse yourself. Whether you end in Nirvana or Hell, you will be punished if you bully the aliens. Know your place, you are a human like me and we are best at negotiation and EQ but we do not dominate them in IQ or 'understanding'.
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You can report all you want,
I intend to
I've been banned from sites before this is nothing new to me.
Yes , because you refuse to debate
I get banned here and there because small brains can't handle me
you really mean mean they don’t put up with your constant attacks demonstrating who really has the small brain
and I don't back down to corrupt admins.
you mean admins that don’t like you attacking others
I
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