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NKJVPrewrather

I am a social democrat, but current Dem leadership is corrupt. They stuck me with Hillary, when most Dems wanted Bernie. I am so mad about that.

WordsMatter

@joecavalry that's hilarious if you think only the Dems are obstructionist. Let's not forget how the Republicans said they wouldn't vote for any supreme Court nominee short of Merrick Garland, then when Obama called the blood they refused to vote for him.

joecavalry

The Republican Party is for lowering taxes and improving the economy, while the Democrats obstruct and are against the GOP’s great agenda.

NKJVPrewrather

@joecavalry They have some good policies, but I prefer a social democracy.

CYDdharta

WordsMatter said:

@joecavalry that's hilarious if you think only the Dems are obstructionist. Let's not forget how the Republicans said they wouldn't vote for any supreme Court nominee short of Merrick Garland, then when Obama called the blood they refused to vote for him.

You mean when the Republicans invoked the Biden rule?

@KJVPrewrather It's really no one's business trying to convince you to vote.  If there is a candidate you support, you should vote for him/her/whatever.  If not, then why vote for someone you don't support? 

Vaulk

I'm generally supportive of a "I won't vote" mentality.  There's a demographic out there that believes that you don't have any footing to argue, complain or otherwise voice your opinion regarding political leadership if you don't vote but that's merely opinion.  I would consider myself more right leaning than left and more conservative than liberal and therefor more Republican than Democrat however, in your case of losing Bernie and getting "Stuck" with Hillary...Bernie fully supported and endorsed Hillary after he lost his chance at the nomination and logically if you can't bring yourself to vote for Hillary then you likely shouldn't be able to bring yourself to support Bernie either.  What's worse...being corrupt or supporting and lifting up someone else who's corrupt in an attempt to put that corrupt person into a position of ultimate power?

with_all_humility

Voting is a right afforded to us by the constitution.  Since it is a right, you have to the freedom to exercise it or not.  The government cannot impede that right unless you are under the age of 18, found to not be a citizen of the country or a convicted felon.  I always encourage people to vote, because every vote does count and some elections are decided by only a handful votes.  

What I don't believe in is party line voting.  While some may disagree, both parties have corrupt and undesirable candidates.  I believe a person should vote their conscience and if their conscience leads them to decide not to vote then so be it.  It is not a crime to not vote in an election.  In today political world I tend to believe you are voting for a particular agenda and not a candidate.  Especially if you vote Democrat.  

I myself am a conservative and tend to vote Republican.  However, at the local level, I have voted for several Democratic candidates.  Mainly because the Republicans were not getting it done and were poorly representing their constituents.  

You never know, your one vote might be the one that tips the election to your candidates win.  

NKJVPrewrather

@with_all_humility Fair enough. I shall vote for a moderate of either party, maybe Dem for the healthcare.

WordsMatter

@CYDdharta you're right they did inv the Biden rule... After they said they would vote Merrick Garland in, that is until Obama called their bluff.

thats how this country works. when one party is in control the other will obstruct, neither party is innocent or worse than the other. It's the same with executive orders, trump undid all of obamas, he undid all of Bush's, Bush undid all of Clinton's, and next time the dems take the presidency all of Trump's will be undone, then that democratic president will have all theirs undone by the next republican president. Obstruction is good by both sides. Neither pary should have a mandate to just pass whatever they want or the country will fall apart by having to do 180s on every law and policy every 4-8 years.

CYDdharta

WordsMatter said:

@CYDdharta you're right they did inv the Biden rule... After they said they would vote Merrick Garland in, that is until Obama called their bluff.

thats how this country works. when one party is in control the other will obstruct, neither party is innocent or worse than the other. It's the same with executive orders, trump undid all of obamas, he undid all of Bush's, Bush undid all of Clinton's, and next time the dems take the presidency all of Trump's will be undone, then that democratic president will have all theirs undone by the next republican president. Obstruction is good by both sides. Neither pary should have a mandate to just pass whatever they want or the country will fall apart by having to do 180s on every law and policy every 4-8 years.

I agree with most of what you said, however laws and regulations almost never go away.  Laws, at least, are voted on by Congress, so people have some input from the candidates they vote for.  Regulations, on the other hand, are dreamed up by faceless bureaucrats  in the ever-expanding unchecked and unaccountable bureaucracy. 

MayCaesar

Let me preface my argument with the notion that, in general, voting can be divided into two groups: ideological voting, and practical voting.

Ideological voting occurs when a citizen votes for the party or the individual based on the shared ideological values. If the values are not shared, then an ideological vote will not be cast.

Practical voting occurs when a citizen votes for the party which, in their opinion, stands as close to their ideological values as possible. For example, if 5 candidates are running for president, and the citizen dislikes all 5 of them, they will still cast their vote for the one they dislike the least. In this case, the only situation in which a vote might not be cast is when two or more of the candidates are evaluated equally by the citizen, and the citizen cannot make up their mind.

I tend to be the former personally, hence I have never voted for any party or individual candidate: there are very few parties and politicians that share my libertarian value on how the society should function. However, in the US, while I strongly dislike both parties for various reasons, I dislike the Republican party, in general, a bit less than the Democratic party, hence, were I a practical voter, I would vote for the former.

It is also worth noting that extra considerations may affect one's desire to vote. For example, while in general I am an ideological voter with a slight bias towards the Republican party, I do think that the Democratic party winning in 2018 would lead to a better outcome, as the executive and the legislative branch dominated by different parties leads to stronger checks and balances, in my opinion. If I absolutely had to vote for someone in 2018, I would probably vote Democrat, even though I dislike their party more than GOP.

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What this means in your case is that you first should consider which type of voter you are: ideological or practical. If you are an ideological voter, then your mind does not need to be changed, since your stance reflects your values perfectly. If, however, you are a practical voter, then you might want to consider the victory of which party in 2018 leads to the overall better (or "less bad", if you want to put it that way) outcome, and vote for that party, regardless of your ideological stance on that party's values and its current state.

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On a side note, you are factually wrong about most Democrats wanting Bernie. Hillary won both the public vote (by a tiny margin) and the superdelegate vote (by a large margin), hence more Democratic voters wanted her to win than Bernie. Bernie built a very effective populist campaign, just like Trump did, making his supporters believe that America as a whole is with them - but facts do not lie, and Hillary was a more attractive candidate in the eyes of the average democratic voter, than Sanders.