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Theocrat

BY what rational method does an atheist know truth from error, fact from fiction, reality from delusion?

someone234

I am a Theist but I can tell you how the atheist does this. If you want to know more ask, if not then I want to tell you it's wrong what they do but I understand why they do it. It revolves around taking things at face value.

Theocrat

someone234 said:

I am a Theist but I can tell you how the atheist does this. If you want to know more ask, if not then I want to tell you it's wrong what they do but I understand why they do it. It revolves around taking things at face value.

This is begging the question, for how to they know that something exists and what its "face value" is?

someone234

@Theocrat Actually what you just did is called begging the question. Do you want a full explanation yes or no? I will put effort into it but I want to know a fruitful debate will result from it.

Theocrat

Having seen both your "reasoning" and debate "style", no thanks.

someone234

@Theocrat You are welcome.

MayCaesar

Every human brain constantly receives sensory inputs from different parts of their body being exposed to the outside world. Then people use the cognitive functions of their brains to compile and categorize this sensory data, try to find experimentally testable patterns and then build theories that fit these patterns the best.

Truth is what matches such a theory; error is what contradicts it. Fact is something that can be experimentally verified; fiction is something that cannot. Reality is the entity the theory describes; delusion is everything that does not fit under this entity.

I do not think this really depends on whether the person is an atheist or a theist: everybody does that. It is the rigor in categorizing and analyzing the incoming data that differs between individuals, and separates those who live in tune with the objective reality, from those who live in tune with some imagined reality that only has some degree of intersection with the objective reality.

Theocrat

@MayCaesar, so you use your senses and reason?  How do you know they are valid?  How do you know your reason is not delusional causing you to misinterpret the sensory data, even causing you to think you have data when you do not?

MayCaesar

@Theocrat

"I think, therefore I am". My brain interprets the sensory data the way it does, and I make conclusions based on that. I cannot possibly know any more than that. Maybe I am plugged into a Matrix and all my perceptions are simulated. Or maybe I live in a simulated world where a bored programmer pulls my strings. The best I can do is to make the most out of the data I have; the assumption that this data in itself is an illusion would simply mean that any cognition of the world is impossible, and this is not a philosophical stance I want to take.

Theocrat

So you have no idea if your reason and senses are valid, which means you really know nothing?  Got it.  This is why no rational personal is an atheist.

MayCaesar

@Theocrat

A rational person understands the reality around them and does not claim to know more than they do. An irrational person believes that something is real based on it being written in an old book and nothing else.

Theocrat

Thank you for your opinion, but given that you just admitting to knowing nothing, I do not give your opinion much probative value.

MayCaesar

@Theocrat

I will just respond to this dismissal with an edited quote from Socrates which sometimes is attributed to him:

"I know that I know nothing. You do not know even that."

Much to learn you still have, Padawan.

Theocrat

Why does this dude admit to knowing nothing and then give me advice based on self-refuting nonsense?  You have answered my Q.  Please move on.  Thanks.

Theocrat

The most hurtful thing you can say to an atheist, who all struggle with delusions of grandeur and narcissism, is that their thoughts mean nothing to you.