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agsr

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-metro-brooklyn-debate-stars-20181110-story.html?outputType=amp

Unlikely Brooklyn middle school debaters best in the five boroughs — and maybe in the USA

That’s a pretty inspiring story about benefit of debate club for kids.  

I also see good benefits of kids learning to play chess.  Which one would you choose?

MayCaesar

I was a member of a chess club as a kid for a few years, and I can confidently say that chess played a very large influence on development of my intelligence and taught me logical thinking. In chess, your biases do not matter: if your play is poor, then the consequences will be inevitable and obvious, and you will not be able to wiggle your way out of it by twisting facts and employing logical fallacies. If you lose, then you lose, and that is the end of the debate.

Debate clubs can develop one's ability to make a persuasive argument, but it hardly will play a very significant role on the ability to come up with a logical argument in the first place. Which is more important: the ability to make a logical argument, or the ability to make a persuasive argument? Both have their use, but the former obviously is more healthy for the nation, while the latter is more beneficial for the individual - at the expense of everyone affected by it.

As such, I vote for the chess club.

someone234

I was a member of both. I can genuinely say both is the right answer here.

Debate Club teaches you so much about social intelligence (including how to charm/ and impress judges while simultaneously disgusting and intimidating your opponent all the way back to the basics of working well with your team, building morale etc). It does it in a way no sport or other club can because it is so verbal and persuasive-based all the way through in every element of what the club is (persuading the school to even host the club etc). 

Chess club teaches you the opposite. How to have raw tenacity in the face of introverted pricks who want nothing more than to play a boring game that they know more than you about and keep you as their slave. You can quit the club, run away, or you can stick it out get real grit and brutally push your IQ instead of EQ in a way that no other club will enable you to do.

I disliked the people at chess club, learned a lot from it. I liked the people at debate club, learned even more from it.

Debate club wins in my eyes but trust me, chess club (if your school has one) gives you a raw gangster grit and 'macho' intelligence that no other club can give you. It will make you a proper warrior, not nonsense like American Football club.

cheesycheese

someone234 said:

I was a member of both. I can genuinely say both is the right answer here.

Debate Club teaches you so much about social intelligence (including how to charm/ and impress judges while simultaneously disgusting and intimidating your opponent all the way back to the basics of working well with your team, building morale etc). It does it in a way no sport or other club can because it is so verbal and persuasive-based all the way through in every element of what the club is (persuading the school to even host the club etc). 

Chess club teaches you the opposite. How to have raw tenacity in the face of introverted pricks who want nothing more than to play a boring game that they know more than you about and keep you as their slave. You can quit the club, run away, or you can stick it out get real grit and brutally push your IQ instead of EQ in a way that no other club will enable you to do.

I disliked the people at chess club, learned a lot from it. I liked the people at debate club, learned even more from it.

Debate club wins in my eyes but trust me, chess club (if your school has one) gives you a raw gangster grit and 'macho' intelligence that no other club can give you. It will make you a proper warrior, not nonsense like American Football club.

how are introverts inferior

someone234

@cheesycheese Inferior at situations with many people involved? I can explain how, if you want.

PotterWatch

This was a really tough question. Both are really good for kids, but I had to choose one. So I chose Chess club. Allow me to explain.

I chose chess club because yes, while debating does teach kids how to provide valid, civil arguments, as well as teach them to do their own research, it doesn't teach them one of the major parts of debate. Logical thinking. Chess club teaches kids to look at the current situation and information they have, then use that knowledge to help them advance in their game. If you don't know how to use logical thinking, then your debates are bound to be biased and unreasonable at times, which just makes you look bad.

cheesycheese

PotterWatch said:

This was a really tough question. Both are really good for kids, but I had to choose one. So I chose Chess club. Allow me to explain.

I chose chess club because yes, while debating does teach kids how to provide valid, civil arguments, as well as teach them to do their own research, it doesn't teach them one of the major parts of debate. Logical thinking. Chess club teaches kids to look at the current situation and information they have, then use that knowledge to help them advance in their game. If you don't know how to use logical thinking, then your debates are bound to be biased and unreasonable at times, which just makes you look bad.

I feel like debating will be more important since you don't play chess every day but you debate every day

cheesycheese

someone234 said:

@cheesycheese Inferior at situations with many people involved? I can explain how, if you want.

http://dev1.debateisland.com/discussion/3007/introverts-or-extrovert

cheesycheese

someone234 said:

@cheesycheese Inferior at situations with many people involved? I can explain how, if you want.

thats garbage introverts are better at making public speeches not because of natural talent to be loud but because they convince people with logic rather than emotion introverts may make more monotone speeches but they plan their insecurity leads them to constantly rehearse and work to make it as good as they can the problem is people don't listen to an introvert if their speech is monotone so they listen to a less logical extrovert but are more drawn to them because of their charisma people voted for trump not because he is logical but because he is passionate the best public speakers are insecure enough to make their speech as good as they can but are confident enough to have good eye contact and emotion

someone234

@cheesycheese do you want me to elaborate?

cheesycheese

@someone234 yes

TTKDB

Both clubs are beneficial, they are in a sense equal to each other. 

funperson

Chess teaches you to think ahead and consider the consequences of your moves. It can also improve your working memory and problem-solving skills. Those are all qualities needed for a good debate. But with chess, you can extend those skills elsewhere too.