The best online Debate website - DebateIsland.com! The only Online Debate Website with Casual, Persuade Me, Formalish, and Formal Online Debate formats. We’re the Leading Online Debate website. Debate popular topics, Debate news, or Debate anything! Debate online for free!
Should the Church and State remain separate or be interconnected?
in Religion
Debra AI Prediction
Arguments
  Considerate: 96%  
  Substantial: 78%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 98%  
  Sentiment: Positive  
  Avg. Grade Level: 7.72  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 95%  
  Learn More About Debra
  Considerate: 86%  
  Substantial: 53%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 97%  
  Sentiment: Negative  
  Avg. Grade Level: 9.36  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 97%  
  Learn More About Debra
  Considerate: 30%  
  Substantial: 43%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 89%  
  Sentiment: Negative  
  Avg. Grade Level: 5.74  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 98%  
  Learn More About Debra
  Considerate: 95%  
  Substantial: 54%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 94%  
  Sentiment: Neutral  
  Avg. Grade Level: 9.38  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 94%  
  Learn More About Debra
The declaration of Independence and constitution both make no mention of God, especially an abrahamic god.
  Considerate: 91%  
  Substantial: 68%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 93%  
  Sentiment: Positive  
  Avg. Grade Level: 12.26  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 94%  
  Learn More About Debra
The Constitution of the United States makes no mentioning of the "Separation of Church and State". What it actually says is “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…”
So what does this mean? Well I can tell you specifically what it does NOT mean. It does NOT mean that the Church and the State must remain separate or that the individual states cannot establish a State Church. In FACT most Americans are totally oblivious that on Independence Day 1776, nine of the original 13 colonies had established State Churches. In 1791 when the 1st amendment was adopted, four of the fourteen States recognized an official State Church.
In 1789 when the Constitution was adopted, there was a fear that the new National Government would interfere with the already established State Churches or might establish a National Church. Congressman James Madison responded to the wishes of his State Convention by speaking to his Congressional colleagues about the dangers of establishing a National Church where one religious sect might obtain a pre-eminence over others. Looking at the 1st Amendment, we can see that he accomplished his objective.
Now here's the kicker, the 1st Amendment DOES NOT prevent the establishment of Religion in general, but an establishment of Religion by Congress. What's more is that there is absolutely no preventative measure within the Constitution that would prevent the States from establishing their own State Religion...nor will there likely ever be.
So in the case of things like Public Schools allowing prayer, reciting "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance and allowing the practice of Religion within Schools...Public Schools are regulated by the state. This is why when you need to find out what's allowed and not allowed in your School...you have to consult your State's Education Code. States are perfectly able to establish Religion within the State and what's even bigger is that Congress can do NOTHING to stop, regulate or control it as per the 1st Amendment.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/first_amendment
https://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danpre.html
"There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".
"Oh, you don't like my sarcasm? Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".
  Considerate: 96%  
  Substantial: 93%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 93%  
  Sentiment: Positive  
  Avg. Grade Level: 10.48  
  Sources: 2  
  Relevant (Beta): 72%  
  Learn More About Debra
1."and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them," (Beginning of the Declaration, lines 3-5)
2."We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights," (Lines 8-10)
3."And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor." (3 lines from the end)
God is present in the Declaration of Independence, according to these 3 direct quotations, making your last argument invalid. As for your first points, Vaulk did a GREAT job breaking down the church-state argument!
Source: http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/documents/1776-1785/the-final-text-of-the-declaration-of-independence-july-4-1776.php
  Considerate: 94%  
  Substantial: 77%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 92%  
  Sentiment: Positive  
  Avg. Grade Level: 9.12  
  Sources: 2  
  Relevant (Beta): 63%  
  Learn More About Debra
Nicely put, and let's not forget the first three lines of the last paragraph of the Declaration of Independence which identify a singular Supreme Authority:
"We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions",
I'd also point out that there is a supreme court judgement (Everson V Board of Education) that upholds the case of Separation of Church and State by making specific reference to Thomas Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists in which he referenced a metaphorical "Wall". This however, is as solid an argument for the separation of Church and State as “It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible.” ~ George Washington is an argument against it.
Essentially, if anyone (Including the supreme court) is going to use the argument that Thomas Jefferson (3rd U.S. President) once mentioned a metaphor in a letter to a group of Baptists that somehow serves as a supreme authority on the separation of Church and State...then by the exact same logic I can use a quote from the FIRST President of the United States that specifically contradicts Jefferson's metaphor to show that it's more of an authority.
https://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/christian-presidential-quotes-22-awesome-sayings/#ixzz4zquaR4oY
Lastly, a little something to chew on:
“We have staked the whole future of American civilization not on the power of government, far from it. We have staked the whole of our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves according to the commandments of God. The future and success of America is not in this Constitution, but in the laws of God upon which this Constitution is founded.” ~ James Madison
"There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".
"Oh, you don't like my sarcasm? Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".
  Considerate: 93%  
  Substantial: 93%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 95%  
  Sentiment: Positive  
  Avg. Grade Level: 12.26  
  Sources: 3  
  Relevant (Beta): 85%  
  Learn More About Debra
I believe that the Supreme Court disagrees with you.
  Considerate: 90%  
  Substantial: 27%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 100%  
  Sentiment: Neutral  
  Avg. Grade Level: 10.3  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 96%  
  Learn More About Debra
PSA: The "separation" phrase so frequently invoked today was rarely mentioned by any of the Founders; and even Jefferson's explanation of his phrase is diametrically opposed to the way in which courts apply it today. "Separation of church and state" currently means almost exactly the opposite of what it originally meant.
Additionally, see above where I already addressed the Supreme Court's decision in Everson V Board of Education.
http://www.encyclopedia.com/law/legal-and-political-magazines/supreme-courts-decisions-separation-church-and-state-are-flawed
"There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".
"Oh, you don't like my sarcasm? Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".
  Considerate: 95%  
  Substantial: 88%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 91%  
  Sentiment: Positive  
  Avg. Grade Level: 12.26  
  Sources: 1  
  Relevant (Beta): 92%  
  Learn More About Debra
  Considerate: 89%  
  Substantial: 94%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 100%  
  Sentiment: Negative  
  Avg. Grade Level: 9.46  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 99%  
  Learn More About Debra
  Considerate: 87%  
  Substantial: 94%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 99%  
  Sentiment: Negative  
  Avg. Grade Level: 9.04  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 99%  
  Learn More About Debra
Sincerest apologies but I was unable to find anywhere in the Constitution that gives the Supreme Court the responsibility, liability, accountability, jurisdiction, authority or power to "Determine what the Constitution says".
My referencing skills are probably really off and I just missed it, could you please provide a reference of the Constitutional Law that establishes the Supreme Court as being able to say that something is Constitutional and it subsequently becomes so. I just know it's there somewhere but I didn't find it.
"There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".
"Oh, you don't like my sarcasm? Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".
  Considerate: 96%  
  Substantial: 83%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 93%  
  Sentiment: Positive  
  Avg. Grade Level: 13.38  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 96%  
  Learn More About Debra
  Considerate: 86%  
  Substantial: 99%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 98%  
  Sentiment: Negative  
  Avg. Grade Level: 9.04  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 100%  
  Learn More About Debra
  Considerate: 98%  
  Substantial: 14%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 67%  
  Sentiment: Neutral  
  Avg. Grade Level: 9.96  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 97%  
  Learn More About Debra
  Considerate: 78%  
  Substantial: 92%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 97%  
  Sentiment: Positive  
  Avg. Grade Level: 9.84  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 84%  
  Learn More About Debra
I'm not at all arguing that there should be a seperation between church and state. I was stating that there is because the Supreme Court, using their powers, determined that there is.
Should and is are not one and the same.
"Sure, but then you indirectly stated, denying this is denying the Supreme Court has authority, and therefore you reject the infallability of the government."
I have not implied once that the government is infallible. Your post was technically a strawman because it assumes that I'm saying their decision was correct. I'm only stating that their decision is what is because that is the way the government works; I'm not currently arguing that it was correct. Thus, your interpretation of my argument is incorrect which renders it a strawman. You haven't debunked anything.
  Considerate: 74%  
  Substantial: 95%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 95%  
  Sentiment: Negative  
  Avg. Grade Level: 9.92  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 83%  
  Learn More About Debra
I understand that you perhaps just wanted to share a case where the SC disagreed with the interconnection of church and state, but if you make such comments like "Public Service Announcement, the Supreme Court disagrees with you." you should have a stance on the issue, and by not making a standpoint, it is assumed that you do not oppose the decision, so either it doesn't matter to you or you want a seperate church / state. That's fine, but just say it then!
  Considerate: 72%  
  Substantial: 91%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 94%  
  Sentiment: Negative  
  Avg. Grade Level: 9.74  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 48%  
  Learn More About Debra
So then...by your logic, if the Supreme Court determines that the Supreme Court has the power to do something....that means it's automatically constitutional?
"There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".
"Oh, you don't like my sarcasm? Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".
  Considerate: 89%  
  Substantial: 81%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 97%  
  Sentiment: Positive  
  Avg. Grade Level: 9.56  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 100%  
  Learn More About Debra
  Considerate: 87%  
  Substantial: 95%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 96%  
  Sentiment: Positive  
  Avg. Grade Level: 9.34  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 99%  
  Learn More About Debra
  Considerate: 91%  
  Substantial: 67%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 97%  
  Sentiment: Neutral  
  Avg. Grade Level: 7.14  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 78%  
  Learn More About Debra
  Considerate: 84%  
  Substantial: 74%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 98%  
  Sentiment: Neutral  
  Avg. Grade Level: 8.7  
  Sources: 1  
  Relevant (Beta): 95%  
  Learn More About Debra
  Considerate: 89%  
  Substantial: 92%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 100%  
  Sentiment: Negative  
  Avg. Grade Level: 13.2  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 99%  
  Learn More About Debra
  Considerate: 55%  
  Substantial: 37%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 100%  
  Sentiment: Positive  
  Avg. Grade Level: 9.98  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 97%  
  Learn More About Debra
True, but a lot of churches are extremely wealthy. As God said, everyone is equal, so why shouldn't they pay (at least a little) tax? I have to admit, making them have a charity seems a better idea. However, as America moves closer to science and further from religion, many atheists believe that it's only fair that churches should pay tax as well. Churches are for religious people to come and practice their religion to feel closer to God and to cleanse oneself of one's sins. Missionaries are the one who try to spread God's word. But yes, churches do play some part in doing this. I don't think there really is a true solution for this.
  Considerate: 82%  
  Substantial: 90%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 98%  
  Sentiment: Positive  
  Avg. Grade Level: 9.12  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 90%  
  Learn More About Debra
Despite that, I'll feign taxes and move on to your other point, where if taxes didn't work, a charity would be listed. This is a noble intention, but most parishes and churches do this anyway as a way of helping out the community or people in need. If you consider all the parishes / people that donated money to help people after Hurricane Harvey, would that be considered a "charity"? Second, would the churches be helping a collective charity, or support charities individually? If the latter, I would be fine, but if it was collective, I would have problems that some churches might disagree about the principles of the charity and not want to donate, but be forced to instead.
Nevertheless, I understand where you are coming from with charity, but taxes to me would only worsen relations between religion and government.
However, the churches could collectively pay taxes if religion and government were INTERCONNECTED! However, in America, we have our church and state separate, so perhaps that is why there are no taxes, but I might be fine with a tax / charity if church / state were together, because at least the federal government would also be funding the religious institutions as a center of income for all parishes that pay taxes.
  Considerate: 96%  
  Substantial: 100%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 97%  
  Sentiment: Positive  
  Avg. Grade Level: 12.12  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 98%  
  Learn More About Debra
I agree that taxes could worsen the relationship between the church and the United States.
However, fairness and equality have to be considered.
The Bible actually says that tax is important. It says that you must submit to the government unless it tries to force you to do things that go against the Bible.
And in the Bible, it never says that churches should not pay tax! If churches try to argue that they are completely separate from the government, that is not true, because EVERYONE is affected by the government in a country. Buy food, clothing, or a home? You are now (partly) connected to the government.
Your point on this one is correct as well. There are churches that are very wealthy, and churches that are limited by their own budget. But the American tax system suits that kind of situation just fine! The wealthy has to pay more money, and the poor pay much less tax. Regardless how powerful or terrible a government is, churches should pay at least some tax, because even as a religion, it is the country that accepts that religion.
But yes, if churches and the government were directly connected, that could cause a lot of problems. I actually don't think that would be a good idea at all. However, if the church is partly connected to the government, it is a win-win. Like you said, the government could fund some churches. The churches could pay tax so that the government can provide more services to the country. And besides, when you are swearing in a president, there is a bible involved!
I know the church and America are not really connected. But this is a debate. We are discussing issues that happen, might happen, or might not happen at all. So my opinion (can change according to your arguments) is that the church should be slightly connected to the government. I know there will be a lot of opposition to my belief, and I will listen to them all.
  Considerate: 87%  
  Substantial: 99%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 100%  
  Sentiment: Positive  
  Avg. Grade Level: 9.24  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 72%  
  Learn More About Debra
The Church has standards and rules that center around a relationship with a divine being. To be honest, some of these regulations and rules are so vague and not very specific. Also, imagine if the amendments were written in bible verses. As you know, it would be difficult to understand these rules and more philosophical rules rather than having more solid and descriptive laws on State.
  Considerate: 92%  
  Substantial: 84%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 92%  
  Sentiment: Positive  
  Avg. Grade Level: 8.9  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 85%  
  Learn More About Debra
You are right that the government says that tax is important, but Jesus uses this as a way of describing earthly value vs. heavenly value, as "Give to Ceasar what is fitting to Caesar and give to God what is pleasing to God." However, you are not submitted by the government to pay taxes (although you would never be able to use a credit card or make money) because Jesus pulls money out of a fish to pay the tax collecter and to make a point about the tax.
I agree with your second paragraph 100%. Nice distinction!
Can you name for me some of the problems? While there may be religious objections, I think that the government could find a way around the situation.
One solution that I would like to bring up in connection is to perhaps have a 3rd branch of Congress to be devoted to the religious sector, as a way of evening out church and state. For each religion, say, over 500,000 followers would have a spot in the government as a way of representing their religious faction. As head, they would be elected by people of the faith, and when the person is voted out, dies, or resigns, another person takes the place of the head via the same voting proceedures. The religions themselves can not try to overpower each other as they have to respect the government, as in the Bill of rights, freedom of religion. The religious sector would serve to be a third branch in laws that deal with religious freedom or religion in general, and would also serve as a mediator between the sectors and the government, by making sure that the government is fair to all religions and programs that the religions can reach a majority agreement on. There may be some problems, but leave it to a court to decide this, as they have to be legal experts in the 1st amendment. If people were worried about people being taught 1 religion in school, I might suggest a course based on religious history and the beliefs of each one, so that young people have an idea of the standpoints, and be able to make their own views.
Feel free to debate the nature of this argument, I look forward to the comments!
  Considerate: 92%  
  Substantial: 96%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 97%  
  Sentiment: Positive  
  Avg. Grade Level: 11.6  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 78%  
  Learn More About Debra
  Considerate: 89%  
  Substantial: 25%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 93%  
  Sentiment: Neutral  
  Avg. Grade Level: 9  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 91%  
  Learn More About Debra
Well, one problem that could happen is that religious people could argue that they are connected to God alone, not to the government. They would refer to the same Bible text (the one about Caesar) and there might be a lot of protestors. However, yes, in the end, the government would probably find a way around it. More people are starting to accept them as the central leadership of a country.
But yes, except for religious objections, I don't think there would be many other problems. The real problem is that we don't know how strong or how large the religious objections are going to be.
  Considerate: 94%  
  Substantial: 98%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 96%  
  Sentiment: Neutral  
  Avg. Grade Level: 9.64  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 98%  
  Learn More About Debra
1. Just because the religions say that they are connected to God alone in my eyes should not be above the government. While God has authority supreme, the religions are working as a whole in the government and are therefore subjected to rights like the Bill of Rights or the 14th amendment, that way God and State work hand in hand, and are not against each other.
2. There may be quite a few religious objections, but as long as laws geared toward religion are brought in, I could see room for compromising or persuasion which could have a major impact on small and large religions alike!
  Considerate: 95%  
  Substantial: 94%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 98%  
  Sentiment: Positive  
  Avg. Grade Level: 11.22  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 99%  
  Learn More About Debra
First, I would like to clarify what exactly it is that you are asking?
The question you ask is that; if we should base our judgement on Religion - or remain secular, but the Heading is "Should the Church and State remain separate or be interconnected?"
Church -
* a particular Christian organization, typically one with its own clergy, buildings, and distinctive doctrines.
Religion -
1. the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
- a particular system of faith and worship.
secular -
Since you are talking about the Country we reside in, .. this here USA aka North America we can throw "secular" right out of the window, because starting from the first arrivals whether we pick the Norse Viking Leif Eriksson, or the Catholic Christopher Columbus, or look at the already existing Native American Indians that lived and still live here were all "very religious".
Religion or religious?
And as far as Religion goes, we would have to establish which version of religion that we are talking about? Is it "Organized Religion", or religious behavior? I believe you are talking about Organized Religion, not "religious behavior" which is pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance to, like jogging every morning for an hour.
So from what we know of our History, the USA has always been, and continues to be ruled by all kinds of Organized Religions, from the ancient Native Indians, to the present day government/controlling powers that be.
And since we know that NO Organized Religion worships our Infinite and Eternal Creator "I Am", or His son "Word", aka Jesus Christ, but worship Deities who reside in the supernatural realm, .. we Bible Believers, or Disciples of the real Jesus Christ (not the deified sun-god, and his Deity father and mother Mary aka Trinity-gods) can not accept or be politically involved in this pagan Religion governing body, even if they do use the Bible.
Why?
Because as we can see that all Organized Religions point to the worship of one god, and one god only, which is Lucifer, or Satan the god of this world, while us Believers, are Disciples of none other than the King of kings and Lord of lords Jesus Christ.
Mathew 4:8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.”
Which can mean only one thing, and it is that:
John 18:36 (NKJV) Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”
Mathew 22:37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
The identity of any citizen of any Country is what he or she believes in and serves, and it's either the Devil Lucifer, or the son of our Infinite and Eternal Creator "I Am", "Jesus Christ".
Joshua 24: (NKJV)
15 And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”
  Considerate: 84%  
  Substantial: 77%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 100%  
  Sentiment: Positive  
  Avg. Grade Level: 11.18  
  Sources: 1  
  Relevant (Beta): 45%  
  Learn More About Debra
Summary: The first official action of this nation declared the foundation of government in these words: "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. "While such declaration of principles may not have the force of organic law, or be made the basis of judicial decision as to the limits of right and duty, and while in all cases reference must be had to the organic law of the nation for such limits, yet the latter is but the body and the letter of which the former is the thought and the spirit, and it is always safe to read the letter of the Constitution in the spirit of the Declaration of Independence. No duty rests more imperatively upon the courts than the enforcement of those constitutional provisions intended to secure that equality of rights which is the foundation of free government."
http://candst.tripod.com/doisussc.htm
From this U.S. Supreme Court Case and the subsequent U.S. Supreme Court finding stated above we can easily and safely deduce the following:
1. The Constitution is merely the body and letter while the Declaration of Independence is the Thought and Spirit.
2. The Constitution is required to be read and interpreted with regard to the Declaration of Independence.
3. The U.S. Supreme Court maintains that the absolute highest duty of the court is to enforce constitutional provisions that secure equality of rights.
4. The U.S. Supreme Court formally acknowledges that Free Government is founded upon equality of rights.
5. The U.S. Supreme Court formally acknowledges that Equality of Rights is God given.
So then the U.S. Supreme Court acknowledges that Free Government is founded upon a religious principle and securing that religious principle is the absolute highest duty of the court.
The U.S. Government is Secular. We don't have a Secular Government. The U.S. Supreme Court makes an outstanding case for the underlying religious principles that our entire Constitution is built upon. Additionally, the 13 colonies at the time of the adoption of the 1st Amendment almost all had some form of State Religion, supported by tax dollars with special powers and privileges granted by the state that weren't removed until decades later. This is because the U.S. Government had no power to remove them and even when these laws were changed, it wasn't due to the 1st Amendment.
"There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".
"Oh, you don't like my sarcasm? Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".
  Considerate: 96%  
  Substantial: 97%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 96%  
  Sentiment: Positive  
  Avg. Grade Level: 8.82  
  Sources: 1  
  Relevant (Beta): 76%  
  Learn More About Debra
Saudis in Audis bong bong
  Considerate: 23%  
  Substantial: 59%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 91%  
  Sentiment: Negative  
  Avg. Grade Level: 5.98  
  Sources: 1  
  Relevant (Beta): 34%  
  Learn More About Debra
  Considerate: 37%  
  Substantial: 40%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 95%  
  Sentiment: Neutral  
  Avg. Grade Level: 10.22  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 98%  
  Learn More About Debra
The Supreme Court has used far more than the Declaration of Independence to determine intent including the writings of the Founders' and the Preamble to the Constitution. What's more, the conclusion "the U.S. Supreme Court acknowledges that Free Government is founded upon a religious principle and securing that religious principle is the absolute highest duty of the court" is in direct opposition to Supreme Court rulings such as Everson v. Board of Education:
Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect 'a wall of separation between Church and State.'
  Considerate: 96%  
  Substantial: 78%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 96%  
  Sentiment: Positive  
  Avg. Grade Level: 12.04  
  Sources: 1  
  Relevant (Beta): 35%  
  Learn More About Debra
  Considerate: 70%  
  Substantial: 39%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 88%  
  Sentiment: Neutral  
  Avg. Grade Level: 9.1  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 96%  
  Learn More About Debra
I now want to debunk your video, which I found to be irrelevant. Sure, the guy might have a claim that there were many organized religions, but I doubt it. Nowhere does he mention that the original 13 colonies were British, which means that most of the founders were Protestant / Anglican!!! The fact that there is anything Egyptian is coincidental. One could even argue that the back of the dollar bill is the Trinitarian God in three persons at the top of Dante's triangle which he uses to depict heaven. Finally, no duh that 13 was used a lot when the colonies were founded, but claims such as 13 letters in E Pluribus Unum are completely unrelated to his point. If anything, who cares if we were founded on multiple religions, they are all supported by the government via first amendment! I'm sorry for typing this, but the video pointed out more coincidentals then true facts.
Finally, I would like to show you why Satan does not control Earth. You bring up Bible passages to support your claim, so I will mention each one in turn to show you why Satan does not control Earth. First off, From John 18-36, there are multiple ways to interpret this, but God is stating here that he is not supposed to be an Earthly king, he is a divine being, however, he administers to the people on Earth like a teacher and a guider, so that the people on Earth can be redeemed of sin and death. Second, your second quote is interpreted by that we either serve Satan or God, this I agree with, but in a more figurative way. Satan is a divine being, but he is a fallen being, so his rule is not of Earth, but of Hell. In a Bible passage, it is noted that Earth is like a battleground, and consider that neither God nor Satan have the power to force us to do whatever they please, but it is by our own free will that this occurs. However, only God can truly control the Earth, as Satan is a fallen being, but God gives us the choice between him or Satan, which is why you may incorrectly infer that Satan controls the Earth. Finally, you mention Jesus's temptation with Satan, where Satan offers him the world. Think about it, Satan was offering a bunch of people for Jesus to evangelize to and save from sin and death, but Satan was offering him worldly power in order to bow down to his (Satan's) divine power, which God denied, and eventually overcame Satan, which means that God is more powerful than Satan, and controls the world.
Just remember that it is our own free will to choose God or Hell, and Earth is the battleground in which we fight our lives.
Thank you for your time.
  Considerate: 84%  
  Substantial: 77%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 88%  
  Sentiment: Positive  
  Avg. Grade Level: 11.18  
  Sources: 1  
  Relevant (Beta): 45%  
  Learn More About Debra
  Considerate: 78%  
  Substantial: 95%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 100%  
  Sentiment: Neutral  
  Avg. Grade Level: 13.08  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 99%  
  Learn More About Debra
As has already been remarked, it may well be doubted, [40 U.S. 518, 556] whether such a stipulation would be within the treaty-making power of the United States. It is to be remembered, that the government of the United States is based on the principles promulgated in the Declaration of Independence, by the congress of 1776; "that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness; and that to secure these rights, governments are instituted."
The Amistad, 40 U.S. 518 (1841)
http://candst.tripod.com/doisussc.htm
The Supreme Court maintains that our Free Government is based upon the principles promulgated in the Declaration of Independence. If the Supreme Court is correct, then our Government is based upon Religious Principles. I can't seem to find the separation here, it would seem that one is built upon the other.
"There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".
"Oh, you don't like my sarcasm? Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".
  Considerate: 96%  
  Substantial: 81%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 95%  
  Sentiment: Positive  
  Avg. Grade Level: 9.48  
  Sources: 1  
  Relevant (Beta): 37%  
  Learn More About Debra
This is repetition of a point (relying on cherry picking the data) which has already been addressed:
SkepticalOne said:
  Considerate: 98%  
  Substantial: 43%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 95%  
  Sentiment: Neutral  
  Avg. Grade Level: 11.82  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 90%  
  Learn More About Debra
It is not cherry picking if you can not show sufficient proof to claim it as such. Vaulk has used the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and Supreme Court Cases to back his points. I'm not taking a side here, just watch how you structure your fallacies, because it seems like you are attacking the evidence, not the argument. It is fine to question the evidence using an attack on the argument, but you seem to be attacking his evidence
  Considerate: 70%  
  Substantial: 85%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 96%  
  Sentiment: Negative  
  Avg. Grade Level: 11.36  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 97%  
  Learn More About Debra
  Considerate: 70%  
  Substantial: 39%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 95%  
  Sentiment: Neutral  
  Avg. Grade Level: 12  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 97%  
  Learn More About Debra
For me, Christianity and other religions would have a large effect in law when dealing with religious liberty cases or anything involving religion in the 1st amendment.
  Considerate: 98%  
  Substantial: 62%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 100%  
  Sentiment: Positive  
  Avg. Grade Level: 12.9  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 87%  
  Learn More About Debra
  Considerate: 85%  
  Substantial: 83%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 100%  
  Sentiment: Neutral  
  Avg. Grade Level: 12.42  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 99%  
  Learn More About Debra
You are also correct that the EU doesn't have to be obligated to a certain faith, but just because one person says that they are not Christian, Muslim, etc. does not make the entire country secular. It would take a majority of secularists for the country to be declared secular. This may be true in Iran or Saudi, but not in Italy or Peru, which are predominately Christian countries.
Finally, I would like to thank you for the respect that you are showing in this debate, I really appreciate it
  Considerate: 97%  
  Substantial: 99%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 100%  
  Sentiment: Positive  
  Avg. Grade Level: 11.78  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 96%  
  Learn More About Debra
The reason nations like UAE and Oman where it's legal to say you are not Muslim are still not secular is because they force you to fast during Ramadan (you can be thrown in jail if you eat in public during daylight hours outside of a private institution) and because you are not allowed to publicly promote any religion other than Islam whether on social media or in real life.
  Considerate: 72%  
  Substantial: 87%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 100%  
  Sentiment: Positive  
  Avg. Grade Level: 13.26  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 94%  
  Learn More About Debra
  Considerate: 87%  
  Substantial: 99%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 100%  
  Sentiment: Negative  
  Avg. Grade Level: 12.68  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 100%  
  Learn More About Debra
  Considerate: 88%  
  Substantial: 93%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 100%  
  Sentiment: Positive  
  Avg. Grade Level: 13.4  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 97%  
  Learn More About Debra