The problem of evil has troubled philosophers for centuries and the debate continues to this very day. For those not familiar with this idea I suggest reading either René Descartes or Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz, both fantastic writers who attempted to solve the issue from rather different perspectives. However, for those who are not interested in reading 17th and 18th-century philosophy (which I can't blame you for not wanting to attempt) let me explain the problem as best I can. The problem of evil arises when it is believed that God is omnipotent, omniscience and omnibenevolent (all powerful, all knowing, and all good). For why would such a being create a world where evil was allowed to exist? What purpose would evil serve gods creation? These are just some of the questions that philosophers have been wrestling with for centuries. I would love to hear other peoples opinion on the manner.
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Arguments
Both good and evil are subjective concepts. We utilize those concepts for value judgments that we assess on human activity.
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Thank you, for your definition.
Evil was created for one reason - to prove that nothing can exist without its opposite. Let’s suppose that the world only contained “good” people. No one would acknowledge each other as “good.” That has to do with the fact that the hypothetical world hasn’t been exposed to evil, therefore how would you know what is “good”? Without “evil,” you would not appreciate “good.” The world we live in has conflicting perspectives on what is “right or wrong,” or what is “good or evil,” and it will remain that way. Evil is in this world to create balance - one cannot exist without the other.
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There are many quotes, as well as immediate observables, confirming the general principle: for something to grow, something else has to oppose it, to challenge it. That which is challenged grows stronger; that which is not weakens and loses to future competitors. Just a few examples:
- To become physically fit, you have to exercise, which is hard and painful - but overcoming these hardships teaches your body how to perform to the optimal capacity.
- The strongest and dominant animals - such as wolves or lions - learn to chase their prey in excrutiatingly long and tiring run sessions. Many die, but those that do not become almost invincible.
- Our political system - democratic republic - was a result of the traditional systems being challenged by incompetent authoritarian monarchs. It is this threat of being slaves to a tyranny, and countless examples of societies becoming such, that eventually led a group of very intelligent people into laying down the foundations of the system of checks and balances that nowadays is used, to one extent or another, virtually in every society.
- The most fundamental danger - death - is what has propelled almost all of the technological progress in the history of humanity. Nearly everything we develop allows us, in some way, to postpone death, or to make the most out of what we have before death. If our mortality was not challenged by anyone, would we have developed computers eventually? I seriously doubt that: we would be happy spending our days under palms and enjoying our ignorantly blissful lazy state.
- The most effective and innovative businesses, such as Amazon or Microsoft, were a result of basic necessity to maintain consistent positive profit for the company to survive. Since the competition in large business is extremely harsh, one has to develop truly spectacular products to stay in businesses.
I can go on and on, but let us not waste any more time on this.From this perspective, imagine a perfectly good god. That god is omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent - but not necessarily an omnibabysitter-like. The god might want to create the initial conditions which will naturally lead to perfectly good humans - he does not want to hand them everything over on a silver plate, but he wants them to come there by their own volition. Such a god would be wise to introduce evil, something that constantly challenges the good and makes the good grow stronger and stronger.
Of course, evil in this case must be overall weaker than good, otherwise it is evil that wins the battle in the end, and the god's plan crumbles. Assuming the god is omniscient and omnipotent, he would definitely have foreseen that and designed the world respectively.
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There is no counter-argument to this other than saying there is actually no "bad" in our universe but we think there is, because our definition of "good" and "bad" are false. But then "good" becomes meaningless. Let me show you what I mean: "God is all-good and all-powerful so there can not be any 'bad' in our universe. Therefore, everything that happens is good."
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Let me play devils advocate to your argument, why would an all-powerful God create a world where this was necessary? An all-powerful God would, in theory, be able to create a universe where evil was not necessary to prove what "good" is.
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I'll be playing devil's advocate, so how do you explain natural disasters? They cause mass suffering so they would be considered evil based on that idea alone. No matter how strong humanity becomes or how "good" we become natural disasters can always come in and kill innocent people, does the baby who gets swept away in a hurricane really deserve that? How does God justify that? Not to mention that at any moment, an asteroid could slam into Earth killing all life, as they have done in the past. Why would God create a universe where his creation could be destroyed in such a manner?
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Again, playing devil's advocate here, aren't you assuming quite a bit about God's intent? Humanity still knows very little about the universe and has many questions that have yet to be answered. Is it not possible that God knows something that we don't and the existence of evil plays some kind of important function in his creation?
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Perhaps natural disasters serve a dual purpose: they let those who deserve it ascend to Heaven immediately through death, and they test and hone the resolve of those who have survived. Both benefit from such an arrangement, from God's point of view.
Maybe the God did not set out to create a Universe without suffering - but, rather, he set out to create a Universe which *eventually* will be rid of suffering, but it will require a lot of work from intelligent creatures, that ultimately will be rewarded.
I am not religious, so I do not know how Christians, Muslims or others explain this - but this is how I would explain it if I were to guess.
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People think God is evil, because he created evil, right? Well, maybe that's not the case. It could be that evil transpired as a result of sin, and sin is something God didn't want in the universe. That would mean that God's not responsible for evil, but the origin of evil lies within humanity.
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An individual going home, and domestic violence and abuse ensue after the domestic abuser arrives at their residence.
Each day and, each year.
The various amounts of gun violence that goes on in the US each day, each year.
The continued practice of the drunk driver, illegally driving while drunk and endangering the innocent people that they hurt because of their drunk driving choices, each day, and each year.
The drugged drivers who are starting to mirror the drunk drivers with their own drugged driving acts and choices, and hurting innocent people with their drugged driving actions.
The robberies, the muggings, the abductions, carjackings, the murder/ suicides, the hate crimes, the crimes committed over money or drugs, the hit and runs, the youth being hurt or worse, by stray weapons fire that goes through the walls of their own homes, and so on.
Those individuals who illegally enable the youth around them with either drugs or alcohol.
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Yes those are all evil acts, but that isn't what we're discussing here. We are attempting to solve for why those evil acts are allowed to take place in a universe which is supposed to be created by an all powerful and benevolent God.
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There are more possibilities then just those. Take John Hicks, the famous contemporary theologian, and his solution to the problem of evil for example. Hicks still assumes that God is all powerful, all knowing and benevolent, however Hick argues that God is so powerful that he was capable of creating a universe where he did not know what was going to happen. God therefore evolves with humanity as time passes experiencing the universe as we do. This would explain why evil is allowed to exist because God never saw evil coming and didn't plan for it in his creation. Take in mind however that I am no expert in John Hicks, and that I am most likely butchering his argument and doing it little justice, however it should serve to prove the existence of more possibilities.
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I see what you're saying. It's like when someone asks "can God create a rock so heavy that even he can't lift it." So maybe God created a universe more powerful than him
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With an all powerful and all knowing God in the mix, practically anything is possible.
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Then why isn't your forum in the Religion section then?
Yes those are all evil acts, but that isn't what we're discussing here. We are attempting to solve for why those evil acts are allowed to take place in a universe which is supposed to be created by an all powerful and benevolent God.
Do you know what some of man is good at?
Bashing God, Jesus, and the Bible.
Some want photographic evidence of Jesus, just so some of the anti religious can prove an empty point of view with an empty question?
Do you have a philosophy question that might cover that individual topic point all by itself?
Then you have kids who verbally bash other kids with bullying.
Is there a philosophy question that can be gleened from the parents of a bully that they are raising, from bullying another kid?
Do you view humanity as possibly being benevolent?
Why hold God to such a standard?
If you maybe go about viewing humanity in the same context as you apparently view God in the same benevolent context, might you view one as better than the other?
Is it fair or unfair to view God and humanity in the same context of each other.
"We are attempting to solve for why those evil acts are allowed to take place in a universe which is supposed to be created by an all powerful and benevolent God."
Man can be evil can't he, and man in the same degree can be benevolent like as well can't he?
So why does God get the question, and not humanity in general?
Why does humanity in general do the evil acts that he does?
Why can't man in refrain from catering to evil, and maybe rediscover some of the lost respect that he could have for himself?
Rediscover some of the previous intergrity that he used to have for himself.
Rediscover some of the previous courteousy and being neighborly towards one another like he used to have for himself?
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You can say: "God is actually good, we just cannot understand it." but this is not an explanation. This is basically saying that everything must be actually good because god is good. Defying all common sense and morality just so you can accept god. But there is a contradiction here, you used your common sense to accept god in the first place. So, if you are just going to throw it out the window why accept god in the first place? You might as well say that the universe just popped into existance. It doesn't need to make sense because god, as you admitted, doesn't make sense either.
Oh by the way, according to this explanation; if I go out, kidnap a child and torture her until the day she dies, this is somehow "good" because god must be good.
I repeat, the argument is this: "If an all-powerful being wishes to create a good universe, they can do it because they are all-powerful." this is not refutable. This is just a logical consequence of making god all-powerful and all-good.
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Ahhh yes, the issue with divine command theory, I was hoping someone would bring it up. Even if most contemporary philosophers, including theologians, have abandoned the theory, it was rather prevalent all the way up to the beginnings of the 20th century so its still a topic worthy of discussion. If the of goodness is connected with God, then everything God does or allows to happen must be good on some level. So yes if God tells you to kidnap or kill, then you must do it and it would be considered good.
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Genesis 4:10–15, “The Lord said, ‘What have you done? Listen! Your brother’s blood cries out to me from the ground. Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth.’ Cain said to the Lord, ‘My punishment is more than I can bear. Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.’ But the Lord said to him, ‘Not so; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.’“Genesis 6:5–8, “The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. So the Lord said, ‘I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.’ But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.” Genesis 7:1–4, “The Lord then said to Noah, ‘Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation. . . . Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made.’“
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I don't know. Maybe I'm super wrong and have a lot of logic problems in my argument. Just wanted to give my two cents.
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Why is an "excuse" needed at all?
When the "problem of evil" comes up, no one ever questions the assumptions in the question. What makes it's assumptions true?
Why would a moral God be one who saves us from the consequences of our evil choices? The POE assumes that only a genie God serving us would be "good". That is ludicrous.
Is what we call "bad", evil to God? Why would it be? Who says God is "omnibenevolent"? From where is that assumption?
Universes are neither morally good or bad. People are. If God made all people good, how would they have free will?
The POE assumes a universe of unthinking robots would be morally superior to one with people who are free to love. That is a ridiculous assumption.
The "problem of evil" is philosophical sleight of hand, mental smoke and mirrors. There is no real problem, but a fake one manufactured out of juvenile word play and poor thinking.
Watch, no one will address the silly assumptions inherent in the question.
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Almost 4 months now, and no one has.
But the silly POE rolls right along, "God doesn't do what I like, He doesn't save me from my stupid decisions, He doesn't come running when I call, so He is evil."
Immature nonsense.
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The philosophical justification stems from God's aseity: the non-contingent, independent and self-sustained mode of existence that theologians ascribe to God. For if he was not morally perfect, that is, if God was merely a great being but nevertheless of finite benevolence, then his existence would involve an element of contingency, because one could always conceive of a being of greater benevolence. Hence, omnibenevolence is a requisite of perfect being theology.
Theologians in the Wesleyan Christian tradition (see Thomas Jay Oord) argue that omnibenevolence is God's primary attribute. As such, God's other attributes should be understood in light of omnibenevolence. Christians believe in the idea of unconditional love; But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (Romans 5:8 NIV)
Some Hyper-Calvinist interpretations reject omnibenevolence. For example, the Westboro Baptist Church is infamous for its expression of this stance.
Christian apologist William Lane Craig argues that Islam does not hold to the idea of omnibenevolence in opposition to christian doctrine...
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In this sense, perhaps, even the God is limited in that she cannot by definition create a fully good Universe. No matter how good the Universe created by her is, unless it is just a grey uniform blob of matter, some of its aspects will be more good than some other aspects, and the least good aspects will be evil by definition.
We, humans, are funny in that our standards directly depend on our living conditions. Someone who lives today in extreme poverty and tomorrow becomes rich, does not really become much happier, as their standards rise and they become more sensitive to minor negative things. In a way, the amount of good and evil in the life of every individual is perfectly balanced and always constant, for no matter where their life as a whole moves on the spectrum, the spectrum itself will be shifted to compensate for that move.
Imagine a system of coordinates centered at the individual. The individual may move 5 meters to the east, but the system of coordinates will just as well move 5 meters to the east, and the individual will find themselves on the same coordinate point as before. The "good-evil" axis may be like that as well, in that no matter how much worse or better your life becomes, the system will move along with you, and you will find yourself at the same point as before.
We see the world in which a lot of suffering occurs as unnecessarily cruel, but would a much softer world be seen as less cruel by us, who grew up in that environment and became more sensitive to evil as a result? This is a good philosophical question to ponder.
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Plus, god is the one who created everything, including our own logic. An all powerful god can bend the rules of logic as he pleases. If he cannot, then he is not all powerful.
To clarify, I do not think such a deity exists. I am just showing why there would be no bad if that deity existed.
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