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Religion or Atheism Which is better?
in Religion
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That said, for many it is important to believe in individuality.
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- Walt Disney
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I'm a muslim, And follow logic and use my reason in every action.
http://islamiclearningmaterials.com/miracles-of-the-quran/
Reason allows me to believe. Reason before belief.
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You are islamic which means you believe in one more prophet than the catholics that abused him. Yahweh is your god just as it was for Stalin's parents.
Religion is in no way based in reason. Religion is installed in children when they lack the critical thinking skills to stop it. Very few people ever dispute that programing because to do so disrupts the very foundation of their identity. The medical term for this is cognitive dissonance. It's not even a debate I have to have with you. You can look at any other religion but the one installed in you and laugh at it right? There are roughly 3000 religions that exist, and you only believe in one of them. Thor promised the miracle of no Ice Giants, and we have proof of that miracle because there are no Ice Giants, so Thor must be real.
Reason...
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I worship Yahweh? You just showed me how ignorant you are on the topic of religion. Islam doesn't worship yahweh, Nor does it take jesus as a god. We believe allah sent a messenger for each age, And jesus was one of them. We worship ONE god, Allah. That is true monotheism. I do know what the word reason means,It's quite obvious you didn't check my link. It contained content, Which NO 7th century man from the desert could have known. And ALSO, That 7th century man was illiterate. Induction. Use my reason. That must mean something with that kind of knowledge, Knew it. And allah has 99 names, And the All knowing is one.
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I think that blind faith (religion or otherwise) is risky and can be abused. That said, there are many great benefits of religion - like sense of purpose, community, structure, etc.
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https://www.britannica.com/topic/Yahweh
There is some contention that Yahowah or Jehovah are the correct name
https://www.catholic.com/qa/is-gods-name-yahweh-or-jehovah
And there are others still
http://www.eliyah.com/yahweh.html
But that I as an athiest have to correct you on what your gods name... I mean the irony of that is not lost on me. And you tell me that I'm ignorant? ROFL I mean really man did you research it at all or was it like license agreement and you scrolled to the bottom and just clicked yes? Check the links out bro, you really should know the name of your god if you are going to worship him.
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http://www.whatstheharm.net/children.html
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Allah means god? Holy crap! Allah doesn't mean god, God can be turned into plural. i.e Gods. It can be made feminine or masculine i.e Goddess, God [masculine by default]
Allah can't be made either. There is no such thing as Allahs.
god mean 'Ilah' not allah. You're lecturing me on my second language
? This is funny. I'm the one lecturing you here.
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I am not convinced though that declaring all religions evil because of these black marks is appropriate.
There are evil religious people and evil atheists. Similarly there are great amd kind people who are deeply religious.
To me, it goes back to abuse of power In general.
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Similarly, while true that atheism killed off religious people in some cases (like communism regime), not all atheism is in that spirit.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_burned_as_heretics
I think that both proves that athiest wasn't an allowed choice, AND that religion is NOT supportive of science.
As for the point of morals... are you serious? Who got rid of slavery? Atheists. Who got women equal rights? Atheist. Who are making laws so that beating your child to death will land you in jail? Atheists. Who made it so you can't stone your wife to death if she's not a virgin? Atheists. Homosexuals not getting killed? Atheists. And the list goes on and on.
Theist have a LONG history of fighting for things that we now see are morally wrong. You literally have ZERO moral high ground, and you do not... I mean like completely do not believe in the morals taught in those books/gospels.
I mean mixed fibers... really? Bet you go to a doctor rather than a priest to rub oil on you when your life depends on it. You MUST cherry pick the bible to be able to give it any validation of moral grounds, and you know how you choose what to follow and what not to follow in out of the bible? The same morals Atheists use.
Oh and for the record worshipers of yahweh are still burning people alive in 2017?!?!?!?
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/patna/90-yr-old-burned-alive-for-witchcraft/articleshow/57880346.cms
So that stuff isn't ancient past, we here in the US have the atheist morals that prevent you from being the theists you want to be.
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http://www.wbtv.com/story/18577233/nc-pastor-wants-to-isolate-gays-lesbians-until-they-die-out
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We believe in parts of the New and Old testament? Holy crap! And this guy is trying to teach me false things ABOUT MY RELIGION. The Injeel [Which no longer exists, due to fabrications made by man] is what we believe. Another fun fact, The Hebrew version [if there is one] MIGHT be a slightly legit injeel. But goes back to the fact that you can take 2 bibles, And quote from the same book different words.
And again, Yahweh was never the name of any god. Did you know moses went to Hajj? Why would he do this, If he doesn't worship Allah?
Or if Allah didn't exist at the time? Yahweh is a man made fiction.
And yes, Allah only belongs to islam.
[Pretty cool how you learned about the islamic view of the bible FROM WIKIPEDIA.] That article you gave me saying Allah doesn't belong to islam. Had me laughing from the beginning. The moment he said Allah is equivalent to god in the english language, Is when the argument fell like humpty dumpty. Allah cannot be made plural. It doesn't work Like Allah's. Allah can not be made feminine or masculine. [That's goes back to the royal huwa concept] http://www.answering-christianity.com/allah_not_elohim.htm That site sets the record straight on tons of misconception and more. And just because religion has been used as an excuse to do evil things doesn't mean it can't be used as an excuse to do good. I don't know what kind of psychological scar you got, that makes you hate religion so much. But drop the ego a bit. Some islamophobic 'teacher of theology ' isn't going to be the one to teach me about my own religion.
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I'm a special kind of ignorant... let's have a look at YOUR link. ROFL
Did you know that Elohim is Allah (Elohim is a generic term for god, and you both worship yahweh which is the proper name of allah and elohim)
Jews do call Him: Allah-im. Aramaic-speaking people also call GOD Almighty Allah. (so jews call the christian god Allah, and it's not just an islamic thing)
The Bible called Jesus a slave (abd) of GOD throughout the Old Testament! (so your link references how islam is based off the old and new testament)
This is YOUR link... which you apparently didn't read. Thanks supports what I've been saying. ROFL, go home you're drunk
Here is some more information for you to ignore because of your cognitive dissonance:
EL, ELOAH [el, el-oh-ah]: God
ELOHIM[el-oh-heem]: the plural form of Eloah
YHWH / YAHWEH / JEHOVAH [yah-way / ji-hoh-veh]: strictly speaking, the only proper name for God.
https://www.gotquestions.org/names-of-God.html
I really don't know why it is that theists have no clue about their own religions. I swear you guys just scroll to the bottom and accept the agreement without ever reading anything.
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And every prophet, Is a slave to god.
But you said Allah is Eloh. Allah is a word [same meaning, but not same word] My problem is that you keep saying Yahweh Is the same As allah. Another problem with the word Yahweh, Is that there are different forms 'YHWH, YAHWEH, JEHOVAH/' But allah only has one, That is allah. There is a difference, Stop acting like an expert in theology.
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Now on the point that YHWH actually means yahweh rather than jehovah or any of the others I have conceded there is some dispute about that point, but went with yahweh as it's considered the accepted addition of the letters. As shown the quran references the old testament which is take from the jewish bible, which says that gods proper name is YHWH. Allah was also used by the jews in the days where there was just the old testament, and at that time they sometimes referred to yahweh as allah. This is a language issue though. Allah is a generic term for your god, and your god is the same god as christians and jews which most agree translates from YHWH to yahweh. So I just use yahweh. Given that you just found all this out, I really don't you've had time to do the proper research on disputing if yahweh is the correct translation of YHWH, but even if you could, it doesn't change the fact that YHWH is the proper name of god of jews, christians, and islam.
As an athiest I do not accept that yahweh supersedes any other gods. So I will call him by his proper name, just like I call thor by his proper name rather than referring to either as god. To me both of these gods are equal.
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As for slavery and women's rights, Abraham Lincoln, Harriet Tubman, Frederick Douglas, and more were devoutly Christian. So was Susan B. Anthony. And don't atheists also have a long history of fighting for things that are morally wrong? Theists and atheists alike have the capacity to do evil, whether in the name of God (which, by the way, is the highest form of blasphemy) or not.
And of course I go to a doctor instead of a priest if I'm injured or sick. The only person who was able to heal someone using only the power of God was Jesus, and the Catholic Church teaches that science isn't our way of discovering God's creation, so of course I'm going to rely on God's miracles that we have already discovered than some Christian Scientist nonsense. You seem to be confusing the crazy Obama-is-the-Antichrist-and-the-Earth-is-6,000-years-old-and-flat Christians on YouTube with the majority of rational-minded Christians.
Finally, your evidence that religion is destroying the world and that it ultimately leads to heretic burning is one article from the India Times. Do you really think that kind of thing I say still commonplace and/or respected by most Christians? At best that is poor data analysis and at worst it is a weak conclusion to an argument riddled with the typic
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I really don't want to go down the list of "christians", but I really can't ignore Lincoln. Most consider him anti-christian for most of his youth, he wasn't as outspoken when he got older, but he did chose his words carefully on the matter.
"My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures have become clearer and stronger with advancing years, and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them." Lincoln in a letter to Judge J.S. Wakefield, after the death of Willie Lincoln
As for the priest thing could you tell me what James 5:14 says on the subject?
I'll agree the witch burning is no longer "common" sure, but it's still happening. There is a case to be made for all the children we are killing in the middle east is because of the perpetual holy war between christians and islamic theists. The body count on that is in the millions at this point, and it's still happening today. Next let's talk about molestation. Pick your denomination and I can show multiple cases of priests screwing children, many of which were spewing hate about the LGBT community before they were caught. Theism is a blight on this world that helps a few but harms the majority. You personally may have some more open beliefs (because it seems to be going that direction as it fades away) but you are a theist which means you help all those actions.
I've never been anything but an athiest. I've never found anyone who could explain to me why god created evil as a child in a catholic school where the priests were fondling the altar boys. I could never get past why something all powerful would create evil. In doing so he shows himself as anything but merciful.
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http://www.christianitytoday.com/history/issues/issue-33/puzzling-faith-of-abraham-lincoln.html
Also, James 5-14 talks about praying for illnesses to go away. It does not say that prayer is the only method of getting rid of illness. As I said before, science is our way of discovering God's creation, so it is in no way unholy to use it for healing. Prayer is used in addition to medicine by many Christians (myself included).
Finally, your point on the body count of Christian-Islamic conflict in the Middle East as well as child molestation was already addressed in my previous argument: both theists and atheists are capable of good and evil. Theists committing evil doesn't justify or excuse atheists committing evil. However, your argument on justifying God's existence when child molestation exists was not previously addressed and also relates to good and evil. God allows evil people to exist because He gave us free will. He lets us choose between good and evil, all while knowledge of His Word as well as the teachings of Jesus exist, so that we have a better idea of what good and evil are. Many claim that because evil exists, God is unjust. This is on the contrary; if God forced us to always obey Him, He would be unjust because He would not let His most intelligent creations think for themselves.
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The scripture is pretty clear about how you should deal with sickness, it's killed a lot of people. You want to say you don't cherry pick, could you show the scripture supporting your "science is our way of discovering god's creation"? I'd like to read that version and chapter. It's the SOLE use of most christians, they ignore the bible when their life is on the line and chose science because it has a proven track record for curing and healing. I have yet to see one of those faith healers regrow a leg, but I've seen some really cool prosthetics...
As I addressed before in my previous argument yes both are capable of good and evil, but for a good person to do evil you need religion.
Atheists don't commit atrocities in the name of atheism, the same can not be said of theists and their various gods.
Rather than getting into the impossibility of free will and all knowing, I'm just going to skip that and go to if god is all powerful he could wave his magic wand and we would simply know. Instead he's chosen to create creatures that's whole existence is to burrow through the eye, so they can make babies and burrow through another eye. Torture, starvation, rape, etc are all things yahweh could have waved away. If I could stop a child from being molested I would, that's the difference between me and yahweh, and that is why I will never worship him even if he did exist. He has the capacity to make this world peaceful, justified, loving, kind, fair, and all that stuff instead he has chosen right the opposite. This is your "loving" god? Ya that's not how I define loving.
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As for atheists never committing evil in the name of atheism, that is an outright lie. The Soviet Union attacked religion since its earliest days; in fact, the term "militant atheism" came from Vladimir Lenin when describing his policies. Mexico followed the Soviets' lead in the 19th-20th centuries, with a Soviet ambassador saying "No other two countries show more similarities between the Soivet Union and Mexico". Even the French Revolution attacked various churches and forced priests to deny their role in the Church, with those refusing denial gracing my execution.
And finally, your argument on God not wiping evil away with His "magic wand" is addressed in an entire book of the Bible. The Book of Job is about a man named Job who is perfectly respectful and is vey faithful to God. However, God and Satan make a deal; Satan is allowed to make Job suffer in any way imaginable, though he cannot take his life. Satan's motivation is to make Job lose his faith in God, while God's motivation is to teach him His ways in the most extreme of ways. Needless to say, Job spends most of the book grieving and ultimately throwing the greatest anti-God rant of all time straight at God. God responds to this by asking him if he truly knows all there is to divine justice and God's true nature, to which Job replies no. The moral of the story is that God is too vast for the human mind to fully handle, and that there are things He doesn't reveal to us because of His great complexity, such as why good people are allowed to suffer. So there will always be things that no one on this earth will know about God, and that is fine, because it is innate in us that we cannot know. This same complexity is why God is often portrayed as a bearded man in the sky in so many paintings; we can never actually know the true essence of God.
Side Note: We could go back and forth on the Lincoln issue forever. Let's agree to put that one to rest.
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Nowhere you say? Um I disagree
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_scientific_errors
So, um condoms increase the problem with AIDs? That doesn’t sound very scientific to me.
Least intellectual view of your religion? I feel like you are calling me stupid with that. If I were to take the least intellectual view of your religion I would follow it, because would be the best way to show little intellect. Populate the world with incest... twice. Sacrificed himself ... to himself to cleanse the original sins he put on us. Man from nothing, but needed a rib for women. Talking snakes and bushes. We are his perfect form.. oh wait except for penises we need to mutilate those things. Do I need to go on? You want to call me stupid? I'm trying to be civil I mean Thor promised to get rid of Ice Giants and I don't see any Ice Giants... just say'n.
Well at least plutarco elias calles is a new one. I had to actually research that one. An illegitimate child in a highly religious area... it's a mystery why he didn't like thiests. A mystery I say. Looks like when he made it so christians couldn't parade crosses and grabs around it the killing started. Cristero Rebellion (1926–29). So um the violence was started by christians really? ROFL. On the death toll wiki "war had claimed the lives of some 90,000 people: 56,882 on the federal side, 30,000 Cristeros" That's your smoking gun? (wish I would have read that first) Look we are playing the body count game and 60k isn't even a drop in the bucket.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cristero_War
Just to get you started because almost none of you theist will deny this one. Crusades at 1.7 million dead. (would equal 34 million people today)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/was-obama-right-about-the-crusades-and-islamic-extremism-analysis/2015/02/06/3670628a-ae46-11e4-8876-460b1144cbc1_story.html?utm_term=.aa1e281385fb
The moral of that story is that yahweh is a d***. Let me start from the beginning. He made a bet, and that bet involved torturing someone who trusted him. That's not to vast for the human mind to understand, I've seen d***heads do that in my lifetime. It's not complex mystical behavior, it's being a d***head. It's cruel and narcissistic is what it is. Why in the world would you pick THAT story to defend evil. It's literally torturing someone for FUN. What yahweh should have said is "No bet satan, he doesn't deserve the abuse" it's not complex it's not beyond anyone's understanding. You don't make bets about hurting and torturing people. It's immoral. Is that seriously difficult for you to grasp? If so please don't go around other human beings...
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Firstly, this is a wikipage and the credibility here is on a similar level to "Buzzfeed".
Secondly, and this is the funny part, there ISN'T anywhere on this page that attests to the Bible describing "How the physical world works". There are several references to inconsistencies regarding how the Bible has described or referenced a number of things in the Physical World but makes no reference to "How they work". This erroneously listed link is most likely a result of skimming websites before hastily copying and pasting the links for supposed "Evidence" and is consistent with what your opponent normally does. You're not alone, you're not the only one who's tired of arguing logic against illogical ideology.
"There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".
"Oh, you don't like my sarcasm? Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".
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Firstly, I will tell you why i believe in god.
There is such precision in the earth, So perfect that we can live on it.
Our DNA is very complex. [I told you to watch 2 videos about this, seems you ignored me. ]
There are also things the prophet of islam could not have known.
For example, The expansion of the universe.
And it is We Who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We Who are steadily expanding it. (Qur'an, 51:47)
But the word 'heaven' in Arabic is 'Sama' Has different meaning [So do hundreds of words in arabic]
It's meaning are : Sky, Space, Everything above,Heaven [in some cases, very little].
And it says 'Expanding' . The expansion of space was onl known in the 1930s.
Secondly, A picture you put said 'Only religion can make someone good do something bad' Something around that i guess.
But apparently good people don't know what greed is, They don't know what being hungry and needing to steal food is. Anything can make a good man do something bad.
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https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/3e/a7/68/3ea7680d1f8ab69d0bc51d03fe5b65c6.jpg
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And syrian kids are being droned, Blame your corrupt government, not religion.
[Also, i didn't change faith. The fact that god has different names doesn't change anything]
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But quite frankly it doesn't matter, as long as one behaves sensibly and is respectful to others.
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But quite frankly it doesn't matter, as long as one behaves sensibly and is respectful to others.
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But quite frankly it doesn't matter, as long as one behaves sensibly and is respectful to others.
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Since we can all agree that, historically, all religions have had bouts of violence and atrocity...let's discuss recent events. Your reference to the "God of the Old Testament" is a very good one so we'll go with that one. And because the topic of the Debate being "Which "Is" better, Religion or Atheism" then we have to address this as a current issue. So let's talk recent history.
Jim Jones - Athiest - Responsible for the largest loss of human life in a Mass Suicide - 1978
When is the last time a Christian was responsible for, let's go with 5% of what Jim Jones did (900 people including Children), so that's 45 people. When's the last time a Christian killed 45 people?
"There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".
"Oh, you don't like my sarcasm? Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".
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How many did Timothy McVeigh kill again? Good christian boy kill what 170 people? http://www.ethicsdaily.com/an-accurate-look-at-timothy-mcveighs-beliefs-cms-15532
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