For those who believe "marriage is between a man and a woman."
I don't see why it matters. Makes no difference to you if a gay couple says they're in a civil union vs they're married. If they want to have a marriage, let them. There's no reason why a marriage should be so strictly limited to only straight couples, that's just a violation of individual freedoms.
The benefits of marriage are often very preferable to a civil union. It varies by state, but to be civilly united sometimes means you don't get as many legal benefits.
I know the definition of marriage says that in some jurisdictions it's specifically a man and a woman. But it shouldn't be. All around, marriage should be open to any relationship between two consenting adults.
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Arguments
- Walt Disney
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https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/2900929/single-woman-39-is-so-fed-up-with-finding-mr-right-that-she-is-going-to-marry-herself/
Specifically, what benefits do civil unions lack?
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Now we can move onto the fundamental principles of the United States, which can be found in the Declaration of Independence.
http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/
Our Founding Fathers concluded that our rights to "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" were "God given rights". This sets the undertone of the establishment of the United States as a God respecting Country. Further down the line we also established that "In God we trust" and that we are "One nation, under God". So it's not like we have to stretch any truths to understand that our Country largely recognizes God and his will.
Now I said all of that to just say this: Marriage is recognized in the United States as God's will, and since God's will also includes that Homosexuals shall not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven...it's pretty clear that God's will on Marriage does not include anything about "Same sex unions". Marriage was created to describe the holy union between a Man and a Woman.
Lastly, if anyone's still doubtful I'll ask this: Can you say that a "Straight Man" and "Straight Woman" in a relationship together is a "Gay relationship"?
No?
Why not?
Answer: Because that's not what the term "Gay relationship" means. Now simply apply the same concept to "Marriage" and you should conclude the same.
"There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".
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Look I have no issue with Gay, transgender, ect...ect. But I'm with Morgan Freeman on this one..."Stop calling each other by hyphenated names". He's not a "Gay Man" he's a "Man". They're not a "Gay Couple" they're a "Couple. Until we can all get to this point...then I doubt very seriously anyone's going to stop having issues with assigning terms to people that don't fit the meaning.
"There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".
"Oh, you don't like my sarcasm? Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".
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There are 3 major considerations
1) biblical definition- that doesn't seem to support anything other than one man and woman.
2) legal rights of marriage vs civil union
3) civil rights of accepting lgbt as the norm
based on how each of us feels about 1 and 3, we determine if we are supportive or not
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Lots of things can be complicated. That alone isn't a reason to ban something for consenting adults. I can't think of anything else that is disallowed simply because it's complicated.
And if you do end up with a few households where a dozen or so people are all group-married, what is the issue?
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What it means now, but inclusive of more people. Part a financial arrangement and legal status for the participants and part a declaration of love and family. For some it would also involve religious aspects but that varies by religion to religion. Only the financial arrangement would really be static and definable and would likely vary by country, with exactly what marriage means in terms of love and religion being a very personal point of view that would really be down to the participants.
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Eh, I know people who'd disagree so it's obviously a very subjective issue where there is no one single correct answer, which is why I think we should leave it up to consenting adults to decide. If someone else decides something different from you, it doesn't really matter unless you're planning to marry them yourself.
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http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2017/09/mountain_brook_native_sues_ove.html
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That and I'm going to stand firmly with @CYDdharta on this one, you cannot begin making allowances in this regard without guaranteeing another open door for people to squeeze other agendas in. You allow Marriage to include same sex unions and before you know it...there's laws protecting a Brother and Sister's right to marry each other...and their parents...and their uncles and aunts. Where would it stop?
"There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".
"Oh, you don't like my sarcasm? Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".
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- Walt Disney
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Look I WISH I was still of the mind and mentality that I could have faith in the American people...but if you ever needed an example of the Camel's nose or more commonly "Giving an inch and taking a mile" then look no further than here:
http://www.cracked.com/article_22506_9-epic--moves-that-are-surprisingly-legal.html
This is a CLASSIC example of what happens when people use their mind to work the system...and all of these things happen. I'm sorry, but if American's were trustworthy in the way that they would be desserving of the faith you're suggesting...we wouldn't need laws.
"There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".
"Oh, you don't like my sarcasm? Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".
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LOL
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1p6M-VgXHwwdpJarhyQYapBz-kRc6FrgdOLFAd3IfYz8/edit
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- Walt Disney
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I am not saying I support changing the line easily, but do think that in this particular example its warranted.
- Walt Disney
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while it is ridiculous to say that it's okay for man to marry a computer, we will debate these notions in the future as well when the line between person and computer blur.
- Walt Disney
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them legal protection of marriage. If there is a philosophical concern about actually calling it marriage then I am okay to give full marriage rights to a civil union.
- Walt Disney
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- Walt Disney
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- Walt Disney
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As for abuse; on a per-person basis, the opportunity for exploitation is doubled as now gender no longer matters. Someone entering a marriage of convenience, for instance for a green card, can now look for someone of their own sex as well as someone of the opposite sex.
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original intent and purpose and whether that purpose isnt amendable is debateble.
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I'm afraid your opponent is correct on this one. This isn't a matter of gay rights. If two horses can't get married because Marriage is between a Man and Woman...then two Men or two Women cannot marry each other because Marriage is between a Man and Woman. We don't violate the sanctity of things simply because other people want them to bend or contort in ways that benefit themselves...that's not how our laws work. We don't bend tax brackets to fit those of us who want to be in them but don't qualify for them. We don't bend licensing laws to somehow arbitrarily include people who don't qualify for the licenses. IF this is truly about the benefits that gay people are alleged to be owed then they should be fighting to bring the benefits of a Civil Union up to par with Marriage benefits...not insisting that the U.S. rewrite the law on Marriage to fit their agenda.
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- Walt Disney
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Save Draft
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See how easy this is, the exact same emotional arguments that worked to allow redefining marriage once will work the next time as well, and the next, and the next. There are no limits; if there were, marriage wouldn't have been redefined in the first place.
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