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SkepticalOne

@brontoraptor

When no one has an answer, the "true" answer is unknown. Given that knowing the origins of reality isn't a prerequisite for pointing out the incoherence of specific god concepts (and you suffer the same ignorance), your accusation of insincerity is nothing more than a distraction from the debate.

The Matrix analogy holds no water for me.  Once Neo realizes what he is capable of, he is as immune to abuse from the virtual world as he desires. Plus, per the Bible, Jesus never needed a realization of being god.

I don't see your point with the time travel analogy.  The god of the Bible is said to be omnipresent and omniscient (cue other logical impossibilities) so it would not be possible for the god of the Bible to be looking at a different version of himself  (because he would be there too) or have only one perspective (because he is supposed to have them all!). This is the very incoherence I was referring to in my original reply. 

brontoraptor

SkepticalOne said: @brontoraptor When no one has an answer, the "true" answer is unknown. Given that knowing the origins of reality isn't a prerequisite for pointing out the incoherence of specific god concepts (and you suffer the same ignorance), your accusation of insincerity is nothing more than a distraction from the debate.The Matrix analogy holds no water for me.  Once Neo realizes what he is capable of, he is as immune to abuse from the virtual world as he desires. Plus, per the Bible, Jesus never needed a realization of being god.I don't see your point with the time travel analogy.  The god of the Bible is said to be omnipresent and omniscient (cue other logical impossibilities) so it would not be possible for the god of the Bible to be looking at a different version of himself  (because he would be there too) or have only one perspective (because he is supposed to have them all!). This is the very incoherence I was referring to in my original reply.  @SkepticalOne

Jesus as a 1 day old baby knew he was God? Interesting. Tell me more.

brontoraptor

SkepticalOne said:

@brontoraptor

When no one has an answer, the "true" answer is unknown. Given that knowing the origins of reality isn't a prerequisite for pointing out the incoherence of specific god concepts (and you suffer the same ignorance), your accusation of insincerity is nothing more than a distraction from the debate.

The Matrix analogy holds no water for me.  Once Neo realizes what he is capable of, he is as immune to abuse from the virtual world as he desires. Plus, per the Bible, Jesus never needed a realization of being god.

I don't see your point with the time travel analogy.  The god of the Bible is said to be omnipresent and omniscient (cue other logical impossibilities) so it would not be possible for the god of the Bible to be looking at a different version of himself  (because he would be there too) or have only one perspective (because he is supposed to have them all!). 

Complete conjecture. You have no idea how God would consist or what time would even mean to zhim, if anything.

Why would he be unable to see things from many perspectives in many different agents? Do tell.

brontoraptor

@BaconToes

https://www.facebook.com/The-Beast-is-Strong-in-This-One-273041423117102/

SkepticalOne

brontoraptor said: 

Jesus as a 1 day old baby knew he was God? Interesting. Tell me more.

You have a bad habit of setting up strawmen and not addressing what is actually being said.  Try again: "per the Bible, Jesus never needed a realization of being god." In other words, the Bible gives us no reason to think Jesus did not know he was divine at any point in his life.  The only story of young Jesus has him telling his family “Why is it that you were looking for Me? Did you not know that I had to be in My Father’s house?” (i.e. the Temple). Besides, you're glossing over Neo being as immune to consequences of the virtual world as he (a mere mortal) can wrap his head around.  Jesus is supposed to be an infinite god, so he should have infinitely less trouble than Neo, This brings us back to, "The 'sacrifice' of a virtual avatar is no sacrifice at all."

As a story, the Matrix is a great, but as an analogy for the god of the Bible (Jesus) - not so much.

brontoraptor said:

SkepticalOne said:

@brontoraptor

I don't see your point with the time travel analogy.  The god of the Bible is said to be omnipresent and omniscient (cue other logical impossibilities) so it would not be possible for the god of the Bible to be looking at a different version of himself  (because he would be there too) or have only one perspective (because he is supposed to have them all!). 

Complete conjecture. You have no idea how God would consist or what time would even mean to zhim, if anything.

Why would he be unable to see things from many perspectives in many different agents? Do tell.

Your analogy of the time traveling messiah is conjecture to begin with, so you don't get to dismiss my response to it as conjecture. Perhaps you can make it over the bar you try to set for me: How does an omnipresent being maintain his omnipresence while limiting his perception to only one temporal location (in order to see himself from only one perspective instead of two...or an infinite number of perspectives)? How does an omniscient being continue to be omniscient while limiting his knowledge in order to see himself from only one perspective (in order to see himself in only one temporal perspective instead of two...or an infinite number of perspectives)? Empathy (as you suggested) would not be needed when the individual in question would literally experience the pain of another (himself) as an omnipresent or omniscient being.

brontoraptor

SkepticalOne said:

brontoraptor said: 

Jesus as a 1 day old baby knew he was God? Interesting. Tell me more.

You have a bad habit of setting up strawmen and not addressing what is actually being said.  Try again: "per the Bible, Jesus never needed a realization of being god." In other words, the Bible gives us no reason to think Jesus did not know he was divine at any point in his life.  The only story of young Jesus has him telling his family “Why is it that you were looking for Me? Did you not know that I had to be in My Father’s house?” (i.e. the Temple). Besides, you're glossing over Neo being as immune to consequences of the virtual world as he (a mere mortal) can wrap his head around.  Jesus is supposed to be an infinite god, so he should have infinitely less trouble than Neo, This brings us back to, "The 'sacrifice' of a virtual avatar is no sacrifice at all."

As a story, the Matrix is a great, but as an analogy for the god of the Bible (Jesus) - not so much.

brontoraptor said:

SkepticalOne said:

@brontoraptor

I don't see your point with the time travel analogy.  The god of the Bible is said to be omnipresent and omniscient (cue other logical impossibilities) so it would not be possible for the god of the Bible to be looking at a different version of himself  (because he would be there too) or have only one perspective (because he is supposed to have them all!). 

Complete conjecture. You have no idea how God would consist or what time would even mean to zhim, if anything.

Why would he be unable to see things from many perspectives in many different agents? Do tell.

Your analogy of the time traveling messiah is conjecture to begin with, so you don't get to dismiss my response to it as conjecture. Perhaps you can make it over the bar you try to set for me: How does an omnipresent being maintain his omnipresence while limiting his perception to only one temporal location (in order to see himself from only one perspective instead of two...or an infinite number of perspectives)? How does an omniscient being continue to be omniscient while limiting his knowledge in order to see himself from only one perspective (in order to see himself in only one temporal perspective instead of two...or an infinite number of perspectives)? Empathy (as you suggested) would not be needed when the individual in question would literally experience the pain of another (himself) as an omnipresent or omniscient being.

So no rebuttal to a one day old Jesus knowing who he is...

As for time travel, I theorized in the subjective. You presented conjecture in the objective.

SkepticalOne

brontoraptor said:

SkepticalOne said:

brontoraptor said: 

Jesus as a 1 day old baby knew he was God? Interesting. Tell me more.

You have a bad habit of setting up strawmen and not addressing what is actually being said.  Try again: "per the Bible, Jesus never needed a realization of being god." In other words, the Bible gives us no reason to think Jesus did not know he was divine at any point in his life.  The only story of young Jesus has him telling his family “Why is it that you were looking for Me? Did you not know that I had to be in My Father’s house?” (i.e. the Temple). Besides, you're glossing over Neo being as immune to consequences of the virtual world as he (a mere mortal) can wrap his head around.  Jesus is supposed to be an infinite god, so he should have infinitely less trouble than Neo, This brings us back to, "The 'sacrifice' of a virtual avatar is no sacrifice at all."

As a story, the Matrix is a great, but as an analogy for the god of the Bible (Jesus) - not so much.

brontoraptor said:

SkepticalOne said:

@brontoraptor

I don't see your point with the time travel analogy.  The god of the Bible is said to be omnipresent and omniscient (cue other logical impossibilities) so it would not be possible for the god of the Bible to be looking at a different version of himself  (because he would be there too) or have only one perspective (because he is supposed to have them all!). 

Complete conjecture. You have no idea how God would consist or what time would even mean to zhim, if anything.

Why would he be unable to see things from many perspectives in many different agents? Do tell.

Your analogy of the time traveling messiah is conjecture to begin with, so you don't get to dismiss my response to it as conjecture. Perhaps you can make it over the bar you try to set for me: How does an omnipresent being maintain his omnipresence while limiting his perception to only one temporal location (in order to see himself from only one perspective instead of two...or an infinite number of perspectives)? How does an omniscient being continue to be omniscient while limiting his knowledge in order to see himself from only one perspective (in order to see himself in only one temporal perspective instead of two...or an infinite number of perspectives)? Empathy (as you suggested) would not be needed when the individual in question would literally experience the pain of another (himself) as an omnipresent or omniscient being.

So no rebuttal to a one day old Jesus knowing who he is...

As for time travel, I theorized in the subjective. You presented conjecture in the objective.

Strawman (Jesus knew he was divine as a baby) and your conjecture addressed above.

Conjecture:

1. the formation or expression of an opinion or theory without sufficient evidence for proof.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/conjecture

brontoraptor

@SkepticalOne

Exactly. So prove Jesus knew he was God as a toddler. I'll wait.

SkepticalOne

brontoraptor said:

@SkepticalOne

Exactly. So prove Jesus knew he was God as a toddler. I'll wait.

That's not an argument I've made...that's why its a strawman. 

Should I take your insistence on perpetrating this strawman coupled with your failure to address my actual arguments as a concession? 

brontoraptor

@SkepticalOne

You claimed that God would know he was God when he got here, even though it isn't Biblical. So explain why God would know he was God while in his mother's womb.

SkepticalOne

brontoraptor said:

@SkepticalOne

You claimed that God would know he was God when he got here, even though it isn't Biblical. So explain why God would know he was God while in his mother's womb.

SkepticalOne said:

brontoraptor said:

@SkepticalOne

Exactly. So prove Jesus knew he was God as a toddler. I'll wait.

That's not an argument I've made...that's why its a strawman. 

Should I take your insistence on perpetrating this strawman coupled with your failure to address my actual arguments as a concession? 

I accept your concession. ;-)

brontoraptor

@SkepticalOne

So no coherent argument to explain why god would know he was God when manifesting into the matrix as an infant. Jolly good. Off ya go.

SkepticalOne

brontoraptor said:

@SkepticalOne

So no coherent argument to explain why god would know he was God when manifesting into the matrix as an infant. Jolly good. Off ya go.

It's your argument, you may defeat it as you like.  My arguments stand unscathed.

TheeKnowing

@SkepticalOne
I have never really understood the white mans science - Athesim. I’ve tried to understand it, but I don’t see the logic behind it. What is you’re understanding or belief on where or how humans first evolved?

brontoraptor

SkepticalOne said:

brontoraptor said:

@SkepticalOne

You claimed that God would know he was God when he got here, even though it isn't Biblical. So explain why God would know he was God while in his mother's womb.

SkepticalOne said:

brontoraptor said:

@SkepticalOne

Exactly. So prove Jesus knew he was God as a toddler. I'll wait.

That's not an argument I've made...that's why its a strawman. 

Should I take your insistence on perpetrating this strawman coupled with your failure to address my actual arguments as a concession? 

I accept your concession. ;-)

Demonstrably false.

QUOTE:
"Strawman (Jesus knew he was divine as a baby) "
-SkepticalOne

brontoraptor

TheeKnowing said:

@SkepticalOne
I have never really understood the white mans science - Athesim. I’ve tried to understand it, but I don’t see the logic behind it. What is you’re understanding or belief on where or how humans first evolved?

TheeKnowing said:

@SkepticalOne
I have never really understood the white mans science - Athesim. I’ve tried to understand it, but I don’t see the logic behind it. What is you’re understanding or belief on where or how humans first evolved?

@TheeKnowing

There was this monkey you see. And it began talking you see. There were no other monkeys who could speak, so he spoke to himself. Abrakadabra! Language...

SkepticalOne

TheeKnowing said:

@SkepticalOne
I have never really understood the white mans science - Athesim. I’ve tried to understand it, but I don’t see the logic behind it. What is you’re understanding or belief on where or how humans first evolved?

Wow, there's a lot to unpack there. Instead of running down that rabbit hole, I'll just ask how does any of that relate to the existence of the Biblical god (which is the subject of this thread)?

SkepticalOne

brontoraptor said:

SkepticalOne said:

brontoraptor said:

@SkepticalOne

You claimed that God would know he was God when he got here, even though it isn't Biblical. So explain why God would know he was God while in his mother's womb.

SkepticalOne said:

brontoraptor said:

@SkepticalOne

Exactly. So prove Jesus knew he was God as a toddler. I'll wait.

That's not an argument I've made...that's why its a strawman. 

Should I take your insistence on perpetrating this strawman coupled with your failure to address my actual arguments as a concession? 

I accept your concession. ;-)

Demonstrably false.

QUOTE:
"Strawman (Jesus knew he was divine as a baby) "
-SkepticalOne

Quote mining the thread to support your distortion illustrates the lengths you are willing to go in order to avoid having your views challenged.

Anyone interested in the truth can find your strawman before this quote from me.