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YeshuaRedeemed

You used to be a fetus, have some self respect.

WordsMatter

I don't think is something you can be convinced of, but at the very least let me give you my own reasons why I am pro choice. 

First, around the topic of this debate, I can not know the moment that a zygote turns from a ball of cells, that have the capability to develop in countless ways, to a human with a soul. For this reason I find it's not my place to judge those who get an abortion. If this really is murder, it's between God and the mother. I don't want abortions to happen, nobody is happy about them, but from my vantage point in life, it's not my place to be the judge. 

This brings me to my next point. If you do decide to be the judge on this, what should the sentence be? Do we jail any woman who gets an abortion? Even the single mother of three who can't care for another child, or the woman who was already there victim of rape? What is a just punishment for this in this life? I leave the punishment, if there should be one, up to God.

Third, I believe in the welfare of those that are already here. Until we are able to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, house the homeless, and most important of all, provide a foster care system that doesn't routinely damage the lives of those placed within it, I cannot support the argument of "well just put them up for adoption." 

Fourth, even if abortion is made illegal, it will happen anyway, just like it did before abortion was made legal. In fact since abortion has been made legal, the number of abortions every year has dropped. So I want it to be legal because if it is going to happen either way, I want it to take place in a safe environment that follows medical standards.

Lastly I present a legal, not moral argument. It is law that you can't be forced against your will to provide any bodily resources to someone just to keep them alive. So this means if a man is bleeding out and I'm therethe person for miles that can save his life with a transfusion, no one can force me to give that to him. If you really are an individual, a human being at conception, then the mother can't be forced to provide her bodily resources to keep the child alive. If you force her to provide these resources then why shouldn't we force people to donate organs they can spare, or donate blood, to preserve the life of others?

I really hope you aren't a troll. I hope that you read my words in good faith and, even if you can't agree with it, at least see where I stand on the issue and why. I don't think my mind can be changed on this issue, and I don't think yours can either. So I don't post this to try and persuade you, but just to try and show you why i feel the way I do. I would like to see the number of abortions, or even sights abortions to drop to 0, but I don't think making abortion illegal is the best way to achieve that goal. Instead we should ask these mothers exactly why they are seeking the abortion, and then adjust society accordingly, giving them the support they need, so that they feel they can carry the child to term.

YeshuaRedeemed

@WordsMatter We agree passionately on the well being of born people. I am a centrist Democrat and want Bernie Sanders to be POTUS. I support single payer by far as well as social programs. I just think social democrats like me are capable of including unborn people and born people in the same sentance. I of course make exceptions for the medical safety of the mother, the mother was raped, underage, and dv victims. I say that because I am not a . I had my tubes removed for birth control, and support sex ed and free birth control, and welfare. I guess I am prolife with exceptions, but I just think birth control is better.

Vaulk

I have a hard time swallowing "If this is murder, then it's between these two people exclusively".  Can we get some reference on this, maybe a precedent where this is acceptable in any other situation...ever?  

MayCaesar

It is impossible to change your mind without knowing the rationale behind your stance. Let me address the little that you've shared:

"You used to be a fetus, have some self respect."

The implication here is that having been something means that you should have had your current rights when you were that something. The problem with this position can be illustrated by applying it to similar statements logically:
"I am legally allowed to smoke. I used to be 1 year old. Hence 1 year old children should be legally allowed to smoke."
The failure of this type of logic does not warrant elaboration.

Now, from my point of view killing a fetus is no different than burning a wooden figurine of a human. The fetus has about as much consciousness as that figurine. If you share this reasoning, then your mind may be changed.

Erfisflat

What reasoning is behind the statement:

"The fetus has about as much consciousness as that figurine."

This certainly is not a fact, but an unsubstantiated opinion. Just because you don't remember being a fetus, doesn't mean the fetus is unconscious.

@MayCaesar