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YeshuaRedeemed

This is my body, this is my right, for my body, I will fight, this is my body, only mine, back off of me, we'll be just fine.

Mr_Bombastic

@YeshuaBought

Your life does not belong to you. It belongs to God. What would have happened if Job, who suffered greatly and had everything taken from him except for his life, committed suicide? That wouldn't have made much of an inspiring story. But he didn't kill himself. He didn't reject God, like Satan claimed he would. And God blessed him with more than was taken from him. Think about it.

LogicVault

@Mr_Bombastic
God is a fictional character.

Mr_Bombastic

@LogicVault
The fool says that there is no God.

YeshuaRedeemed

@Mr_Bombastic How and when I die is between me and my Yeshua. I have the right to choose what to do with my body. You have no right whatsoever to force a paralytic or terminal patient to live that does not want to. MIND  your own business.

YeshuaRedeemed

@YeshuaBought @Mr_Bombastic Do I need to mute you? If you can't be like Christ, don't call yourself a Christian.

LogicVault

@Mr_Bombastic
A fool claims things exist without evidence. Stories aren't evidence.

YeshuaRedeemed

@LogicVault What do you consider evidence?

LogicVault

@YeshuaBought
Physical proof.

MayCaesar

The core problem in this eternal debate is the question on whether the person is able to give an informed consent for being killed. A terminally ill person's body and mind slowly disintegrate, and eventually their brain stops working well - are we sure that their desire to die is what they genuinely want, rather than being a product of the (potentially fixable) mental malfunction? Are these two even different - maybe we are all a product of our various mental illnesses, and every desire is both genuine and induced?

Personally, I am more inclined to see it as the latter. There are no "mental illnesses", there are mental deviations from the norm, and each person in the world deviates from the averaged norm to some extent, some simply happen to deviate far more than others. And regardless of whether the person is "mentally ill" or not, they, indeed, own their body and their life. 

At the same time, there are definitely grey area situations. In the heat of the moment, a person does not always employ long-term planning. If someone is in extreme pain, even one that may be alleviated in a few hours by an invasive operation, they may not be willing to wait for so long and demand that they are killed immediately. Should the hospital comply? Or should the staff assume that the person is not thinking straight right now?

How many people wanted to die at some point, only to realize later that that was a mistake and the life was worth living in the end? 

---

We are strange creatures: we tend to favor instant gratification over long-term benefit. We spend a lot of money on unnecessary goods to satisfy our caprices, only to then have to pay outrageous loans, barely making ends. We do crazy mountain biking stunts to induce an adrenaline influx, only to then break a few bones and remain disabled for the rest of our life. And we sometimes try to end our life, only to later wonder how we could be so shortsighted.

Should others interfere when we do everything to jeopardize our future, or let us do whatever we want? I favor the latter, as a libertarian, but I do acknowledge that this is a very complicated question, one that probably will never have a final answer.

with_all_humility

God is spiritual, not fictional.

@LogicVault

with_all_humility

YeshuaBought said:

@Mr_Bombastic How and when I die is between me and my Yeshua. I have the right to choose what to do with my body. You have no right whatsoever to force a paralytic or terminal patient to live that does not want to. MIND  your own business.

"my Yeshua"?  Do you have a different recollection of Yahweh than the rest of us?  Since when does the great I AM become someone's possession?  Unless you are speaking of a different God than the God in the Bible...What precept do you conclude one can take a life and not be in a state of sin? 

with_all_humility

LogicVault said:

@Mr_Bombastic
A fool claims things exist without evidence. Stories aren't evidence.

There are sever thing that scientist claim exist without direct evidence...Dark Matter, Dark Space, Big Bang, Evolution from one cell organism, Creation of life from non-life.  How many things do you claim from man's science to exist without evidence?  

LogicVault

@with_all_humility
"There are sever thing that scientist claim exist without direct evidence...Dark Matter, Dark Space, Big Bang, Evolution from one cell organism, Creation of life from non-life" Technically they do have evidence of those things. The difference is that scientists realize their ideas are theories based on evidence, religion is taught as a definite fact without any physical evidence. Stories in a book written by men is not evidence.

"God is spiritual, not fictional." When people call things spiritual, it means it has no physical existence. It means they 'feel' like it's true. Feelings are not facts. There are people who think certain crystals are spiritual and can heal, bring fortune, provide luck, etc. But science proves these things to be untrue. There is no physical evidence of a god existing.

sear

"There are sever thing that scientist claim exist without direct evidence...Dark Matter, Dark Space, Big Bang, Evolution from one cell organism, Creation of life from non-life.  How many things do you claim from man's science to exist without evidence?" wh

The direct evidence for dark matter is, there isn't enough mass in the Milky Way to hold our galaxy together.

So astrophysicists deduce that there's matter out there to make up the gravitational difference, but that we can't see it. I think they think that's direct evidence.

In vivid contrast faith means belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.