Should the wall be build to keep away immigrants?
in Immigration

piloteer · November 2018

@CYDdharta

What we have here is a failure to communicate. The dollar amount of the tax burden of illegal immigrants from the years 1990 to 2016 is not a changeable number. It already happened. The purpose of the Yale study was to show that the heritage foundations study grossly underestimated the immigrant population. The Yale study did not count immigrant households, it counted individual immigrants. The dollar amount of the tax burden didn't change, the population size did. The findings of the Yale study have shown that illegal immigrants are not a burden on taxpayers, they actually put more money into the tax system than they take out. The findings have also shown that illegal immigrants are less dangerous than naturalized citizens because they commit less violent crimes per capita than naturalized citizens.

There is one thing about your argument that has me a little perplexed. Obviously I'm not going to convince you that illegal immigrants aren't a burden on American taxpayers. Hey, that's fine, I get it. You have your stats, and I have mine, and we can squabble back and forth for as long as you'd like. But if you're worried about how much illegal immigrants cost taxpayers, why aren't you worried about the cost of the wall? Why don't you care about how much it will impact the national debt? Since when did it become logical to add on a HUGE burden to taxpayers, for the sake of trying to stop the burden from illegal immigrants? I thought we hit rock bottom when people proposed drug tests for welfare recipients. Umm gee, doesn't that add an extra cost to a program that we obvious don't like in the first place, hence the reason we're proposing that the recipients take drug tests?!?! If your problem is with the program itself, why don't we just cut it out of the budget? Adding a burden to taxpayers, just to try and get rid of a burden to taxpayers, is not logical policy! You're not making sense! I'm a hardened Randroid. If you think you can convince me that we must raise taxes to fix the burden of illegal immigrants, I think you'll find you're going up against a wall. You haven't convinced me that immigrants are a burden on American taxpayers. You also haven't convinced me that immigrants are criminally dangerous either. I'm also not convinced that a wall would be effective, so I don't want to pay for a public project that WILL raise taxes.

"@George_Horse ;

Just like the argument you made about the maginot line, this is a totally different demographic than the immigrants in Europe. Frankly, European problems should remain European problems. Furthermore, are you trying to suggest that everyone within the US needs to be screened? The overwhelming majority of terrorist attacks in the US were done by Americans. I know you would hate it as much as I would if we lost our freedom of privacy because some wack job goes and kills people because of a supposed "Jewish conspiracy". These South Americans are not coming from countries where terrorism is really a problem. Maybe violent crime and political corruption, but not the type of terrorism we see here. We could close the borders and not let anybody in, but will that end terrorism in the US?

"@John_C_87

I'm not sure how to properly respond to your argument because I'm not sure what you're talking about. Could you please clarify?

CYDdharta · November 2018

piloteer said:

@CYDdharta

What we have here is a failure to communicate. The dollar amount of the tax burden of illegal immigrants from the years 1990 to 2016 is not a changeable number. It already happened. The purpose of the Yale study was to show that the heritage foundations study grossly underestimated the immigrant population. The Yale study did not count immigrant households, it counted individual immigrants. The dollar amount of the tax burden didn't change, the population size did. The findings of the Yale study have shown that illegal immigrants are not a burden on taxpayers, they actually put more money into the tax system than they take out. The findings have also shown that illegal immigrants are less dangerous than naturalized citizens because they commit less violent crimes per capita than naturalized citizens.

There is one thing about your argument that has me a little perplexed. Obviously I'm not going to convince you that illegal immigrants aren't a burden on American taxpayers. Hey, that's fine, I get it. You have your stats, and I have mine, and we can squabble back and forth for as long as you'd like. But if you're worried about how much illegal immigrants cost taxpayers, why aren't you worried about the cost of the wall? Why don't you care about how much it will impact the national debt? Since when did it become logical to add on a HUGE burden to taxpayers, for the sake of trying to stop the burden from illegal immigrants? I thought we hit rock bottom when people proposed drug tests for welfare recipients. Umm gee, doesn't that add an extra cost to a program that we obvious don't like in the first place, hence the reason we're proposing that the recipients take drug tests?!?! If your problem is with the program itself, why don't we just cut it out of the budget? Adding a burden to taxpayers, just to try and get rid of a burden to taxpayers, is not logical policy! You're not making sense! I'm a hardened Randroid. If you think you can convince me that we must raise taxes to fix the burden of illegal immigrants, I think you'll find you're going up against a wall. You haven't convinced me that immigrants are a burden on American taxpayers. You also haven't convinced me that immigrants are criminally dangerous either. I'm also not convinced that a wall would be effective, so I don't want to pay for a public project that WILL raise taxes.

WTF is a "randriod"??

piloteer · November 2018

@CYDdharta

Someone who reads Ayn Rand

John_C_87 · November 2018

@CYDharta

First let’s start with an obstacle built to the burdens of immigration as general idea in a united state is not a good thing. That generalization of cause and effect aside any study including one from Yale is wrong and does not make a curtail determination in economic outcome prior to any statement that includes increases dollar. Where does the dollar come from? Immigration of any kind is a tax burden so how one group can be ruled out as less burden from others again foolish and misleading as it is a political motivation to hold office. While the only way possible for any immigration issue to put more dollar into a system, then it takes out is if counterfeiting of the dollar is involved. This fact is universally truth with and structured market. The consumer simply does not bring in more dollar then what is there and the dollar is a federal registered receipt.

@piloteer

In reference to the uncertainty of what is said by me. We are not using tax money to build a canal with an adjacent fence we are securing funding to be held for a period as a shift in axiom cost can be used to outweigh expansion cost of a growth set prior in an economy. Economic development for a firm base on rural growth in the Midwest and Southern United States is when structured properly a secure investment holding. As it holds many advantages to the risk of disadvantages it creates. A fence/wall alone is simple a high risk privacy issue with no structure for global long term goal. A project like a massive Sothern U.S. canal and work on the Mississippi is a means to which the United States would be moving its place in world trade back to Center after some-time of abuse.

cheesycheese · November 2018

George_Horse said:

piloteer said:

@George_Horse

Yes, they should be let in. It will be no burden on taxpayers, it will help the GDP grow, and there's no valid evidence that shows illegal immigrants are more criminally dangerous than naturalized citizens. The wall WILL make federal taxes increase, it will increase our national debt, and there's no evidence that it will dramatically decrease illegal immigration.

No they should not. All we will do is bring problems into our society. The same thing happened to Europe, they let them ALL in, and in return, they received terrorist attacks. Why? Because the backgrounds of the refugees were NOT checked, so they didn't know who had terrorist affiliations and who didn't. Instead, they [Immigrants] should come in by the legal process, and if you are so willing, would you let random those unknown immigrants into your home?

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/crime-sweden-rape-capital-europe/

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Should the wall be build to keep away immigrants?
in Immigration