Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible ?
in Religion

Evidence · September 2018

Erfisflat said:

Evidence said:

Erfisflat said:

Evidence

Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he wasnot; for God took him.

Surely someone who was here, what nearly 1,000 years, even before the great flood, and witnessed it with God would have some fantastic stories, no? B.o.Enoch further validates the flat earth, and the motions of the sun and moon.

From my further investigation on the Book of Enoch, my reaffirmed conclusion from the evidence is that this book was created in an effort to further demonize the stories of the Bible, our Creator God and His son Word aka Jesus Christ, especially the Holy Angels, and try to make us "second guess" Satan's actions" and even present some form of justification for the devil and his "fallen angels". This breeds more of what is going on with the LGBT, this 'Trans Gender agenda' that has taken over our world by storm! Especially disgusting is that it has taken such root in Israel, in Jerusalem, right where our Lord walked the streets!

if you find anything in error, by all means let me know Bro!

God bless us all with eyes to see.
@Erfisflat said: Not once have I seen the phrase "sons of God" referring to anything born of man. This is the initial disconnect we seem to have. Alternatively, the phrase is seen in the book of Job, three times:
Job 1:6 King James Version (KJV)
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
How did the sons of Seth enter heaven to see God? Was Satan the offspring of Seth?

Evidence - Wow, thank you buddy, and I thought you didn't understand the Bible since I rarely see you quote it!?

You see, this is why I've been waiting for someone who doesn't belong to a Religion to help me, .. and from what you just quoted had to be Holy Spirit inspired.

You are absolutely right, how and why would of the descendance of Adam through Seth (which I figured to be sons of God) be going to present themselves before the Lord, where only Satan (who I know was an angel of God) and other Angels can go?

@Erfisflat said: Again: How did the sons of Seth enter heaven to see God? Was Satan the offspring of Seth?

Again:

Job 2:1 King James Version (KJV)

2 :1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.

Again you're right! And we know this is taking place in Heaven before the Lord because of the verses that immediately follow;

Job 2:2 And the Lord said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

.. where no man just shows up before the Lord while here in this body! So YES, .. this has to mean that the "sons of God" are Angels, .. and it's Biblical.

P.S. Did you notice that so far we didn't need the Book of Enoch, nor the Book of Mormon, or a Christian Trinity Apologetic to figure this out, right?

Erfisflat - Job 39:7 (KJV)

And here referring to ALL of God's angel as "sons of God".7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Let's look again at Genesis 6:1

Genesis 6:1-2 King James Version (KJV)

6 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

When man (men) is first used, there is no discernment between man(kind) and ungodly men. It seems to refer to ALL men on earth, further distinguishing men from angels.

What's more, there is no mention of the "daughters of God" (surely there were women in Seth's bloodline) breeding with ungodly men or sons of man. It is clear that the angels were males, and found the human women attractive.

Evidence - Yes, after re-reading these and other passages, it does look like the sons of God were Angels, .. I was concentrating mainly on the word Nephilim and completely missed this, .. may God bless you for pointing it out!

Erfisflat - In Genesis 6:3, directly after this event, God says:

Genesis 6:3 King James Version (KJV)

3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Rebuking man, not "daughters of man", or "sons of God" for marriage with angels, whom could have tempted the daughters of man with immortality, saying they are but "flesh". Thereby reducing the average lifespan to 120 years, where priors we're 500-1,000.

The book of Jude seems to agree that angels, or at least the fallen ones could breed with humans:

Yes, it sure looks like it, .. and they were not 'fallen angels' yet, but I believe this was the last straw!

But this brings up other questions, like "what were the Angels of God, or the 'sons of God' doing here on earth in such physical forms where they could even impregnate human women?

Did they take up residence and have homes here on earth to raise their little Giants? Or did they just have sex, and go back up to Heaven?

This info can be of great help in filling the gap between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 .. and also get an idea where the information in the so called; "Book of Enoch" came from!?

I don't believe for a minute that the Book of Enoch was written by Seth's descendant Enoch, .. but since Enoch was a Prophet who way back then already prophesied about the coming Messiah, and even more importantly Enoch being in the genealogy of Jesus Christ, .. I have this deep feeling that there is some scrolls or letters that were written by him, but kept from the people after the death of the Apostles, since Luke, Paul and Jude mention reading these prophesies!

Jude 1:14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints,"

But the question is, who has it, or who is keeping it from the people?

I figure, if it had a lot of prophesies of the coming Messiah as Jude hints on it, then the Jews , who vehemently denied Christ as their long awaited Messiah would gain from it by hiding critical info on fulfilled prophesies that Jesus was who he claimed and shown he was.

If it contained critical information about the Fallen angels, then the RCC Christians would gain by hiding it, and then plagiarizing a copy, and pretend to have someone fall upon it accidently, thus kind of unofficially introduce it to the Christian masses, which would also keep them from taking the risk (Gods anger/curse) of having to add it to the rest of the Bible!

Erfisflat - Jude 6-16 King James Version (KJV)

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Even comparing them to inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Yes, I agree, which may have been the last straw that got them kicked out of Heaven, their 'first estate'!

Revelations 12:7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Erfisflat - About Jesus's words about angels and marriage.

“For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven” (Matthew 22:30). Jesus says nothing about the sexual capabilities of angels, leaving open the possibility that they are capable of sexual relations but refrain from such in heaven.

So true, .. especially re-considering everything with this whole new outlook!
Does introduce a whole lot of New Questions! But that's good, because like the Flat Earth, at least we know what to look for?

I still stand on; that this version of "The Book of Enoch" really is all about, which follows in the manner of the Book of Mormon, Allen G. White, .. the Watchtowers version of the Bible, the Koran etc. .. is full of deception.

The most obvious: "Men interceding for Angels", and not just any angels, but "Fallen, judged and condemned to eternal hellfire angels"!
This is an attempt by Satan to draw sympathy for himself from men, and it's not that he needs or wants any sympathy from men created in Gods Image, .. because he hates us, .. but just to get us to actually provide any sympathy would be a victory for him, and a great offense against Christ having died for us, which would be a great offence against God the actual Judge who condemned them!

Erfisflat · September 2018

@Evidence - "Wow, thank you buddy, and I thought you didn't understand the Bible since I rarely see you quote it!?"

I was brought up in a Christian home, and have read and studied the Bible. I am a bit rusty, I could once recite the books of the Bible and a great many important verses. I stopped studying the Bible when I got out of my parents house and started studying globetard sciences, and haven't even picked it up after discovering the true shape of the earth, though I knew that science now validates the Bible, and continues to do so, if interpreted correctly, and not as we are told to do. I don't quote scriptures very often because there are a field of atheists out there that think that science proves there is no Father, which couldn't be further from the truth, and this I show them with science.

It was not until I learned of the book of Enoch that I decided to go back and look at the Bible, to see whether the book of Enoch fits in with the Bible, as claimed. It is claimed to be written before the Bible, and was included in the Bible until about 500 years ago, about the same time that the globe earth entered the picture, and I don't believe in coincidences.

I'm still looking for any inconsistencies, with no luck. I'm thinking a lot of things aren't mentioned in the Bible because Enoch had already told the story. Maybe the removal was inspired by the Father, because it wasn't meant for the people at the time, but it was meant for us, now in the end times. Maybe it was satan who saw the removal of Enoch, simply because it didn't fit in his plan, or it revealed too much of it, or even gave us a plan.

"You see, this is why I've been waiting for someone who doesn't belong to a Religion to help me, .. and from what you just quoted had to be Holy Spirit inspired."

Likewise, you've helped me set truth apart from lies, most importantly with scriptures, just as I have in the last post. So our seemingly only indifference left with the book of Enoch is now:

"This is an attempt by Satan to draw sympathy for himself from men, and it's not that he needs or wants any sympathy from men created in Gods Image, .. because he hates us, .. but just to get us to actually provide any sympathy would be a victory for him, and a great offense against Christ having died for us, which would be a great offence against God the actual Judge who condemned them!"

Can this be justified with scriptures?

Evidence · September 2018

Erfisflat said:

@Evidence - "Wow, thank you buddy, and I thought you didn't understand the Bible since I rarely see you quote it!?"
I was brought up in a Christian home, and have read and studied the Bible. I am a bit rusty, I could once recite the books of the Bible and a great many important verses. I stopped studying the Bible when I got out of my parents house and started studying globetard sciences, and haven't even picked it up after discovering the true shape of the earth, though I knew that science now validates the Bible, and continues to do so, if interpreted correctly, and not as we are told to do. I don't quote scriptures very often because there are a field of atheists out there that think that science proves there is no Father, which couldn't be further from the truth, and this I show them with science.

It was not until I learned of the book of Enoch that I decided to go back and look at the Bible, to see whether the book of Enoch fits in with the Bible, as claimed. It is claimed to be written before the Bible, and was included in the Bible until about 500 years ago, about the same time that the globe earth entered the picture, and I don't believe in coincidences.
I'm still looking for any inconsistencies, with no luck. I'm thinking a lot of things aren't mentioned in the Bible because Enoch had already told the story. Maybe the removal was inspired by the Father, because it wasn't meant for the people at the time, but it was meant for us, now in the end times. Maybe it was satan who saw the removal of Enoch, simply because it didn't fit in his plan, or it revealed too much of it, or even gave us a plan.
"You see, this is why I've been waiting for someone who doesn't belong to a Religion to help me, .. and from what you just quoted had to be Holy Spirit inspired."
Likewise, you've helped me set truth apart from lies, most importantly with scriptures, just as I have in the last post. So our seemingly only indifference left with the book of Enoch is now:

"This is an attempt by Satan to draw sympathy for himself from men, and it's not that he needs or wants any sympathy from men created in Gods Image, .. because he hates us, .. but just to get us to actually provide any sympathy would be a victory for him, and a great offense against Christ having died for us, which would be a great offence against God the actual Judge who condemned them!"

Can this be justified with scriptures?

@Erfisflat ;
Yes scripture, that is what I base my opinion on with your Flat Earth information, and this Enoch book which right off the bat when I first started reading it sounded like the Book of Mormon.
Here is an example:

Enoch 10:106.1 And after those days my son Methuselah chose a wife for his son
Lamech and she became pregnant by him and bore a son.
106.2 And his body was white like snow, and red like the flower of a rose,
and the hair of his head was white like wool. And his eyes were beautiful
and when he opened his eyes he made the whole house bright, like the Sun,
so that the whole house was exceptionally bright.
106.3 And when he was taken from the hand of the midwife he opened his
mouth and spoke to the Lord of Righteousness.
106.4 And his father Lamech was afraid of him, and fled, and went to his
father Methuselah.
106.5 And he said to him: "I have begotten a strange son; he is not like a
man but is like the children of the Angels of Heaven, of a different type and
not like us. And his eyes are like the rays of the Sun and his face glorious.
106.6 And it seems to me that he is not sprung from me but from the
Angels and I am afraid that something extraordinary may be done on the
earth in his days.
106.7 And now, my father, I am entreating you and petitioning you, to go
to our father Enoch, and learn from him the truth, for his dwelling is with
the Angels."
106.8 And when Methuselah heard the words of his son he came to me, at
the ends of the Earth, for he had heard that I was there. And he cried out,
and I heard his voice and went to him. And I said to him: "Behold I am
here my son, for you have come to me."

(So let's see now, Lamech begets a son whose body was white like snow, and red like the flower of a rose, .. so which color was it? If Noah really looked like that, why didn't the Bible mention any of that? John the Baptist is described like a wild man that just got back from living in a cave. Moses face shone like the sun, and his hair turned white after talking with God, .. so surely a two-toned child with pure white hair, and eyes that can light up an entire room would be mentioned, .. right?

Then sends his father Methuselah to seek council with Enoch about the boy which Enoch said he already seen in a vision and let Methuselah known!? And he heard from some people that Enoch was hanging out with the Angels at the "end of the earth", really?? Is that where the Angels are, .. which end, since the earth has four corners? Did he walk, take a horse, a camel, .. how did he reach the end of the earth when there is ice a mile high he must pass to get there? Besides, the Bible said "God took him and he was not" and we know that Gods throne is in Heaven, .. so according to Enoch, is God hanging out at the end of the earth with Enoch and the Angels?

this story: "for a child has been born to my son Lamech, whose form and type are not like the type of a man, .." is repeated three times, within the same chapter, .. filler, just like Joseph Smith with his Book of Mormo copying word to word from the Bible, then throws in his delusions. I don't know Brother, but this just does not sound like; "inspired scripture" to me?

106.9 And he answered me, and said: "Because of a great matter I have
come to you, and because of a disturbing vision, have I come near.
106.10 And now hear me, my father, for a child has been born to my son
Lamech, whose form and type are not like the type of a man. His colour is
whiter than snow, and redder than the flower of the rose, and the hair of his
head is whiter than white wool. And his eyes are like the rays of the Sun;
and he opened his eyes and made the whole house bright.
106.11 And he was taken from the hand of the midwife, and he opened his
mouth, and blessed the Lord of Heaven.
106.12 And his father Lamech was afraid and fled to me. And he does not
believe he is sprung from him but thinks him to be from the Angels of
Heaven. And behold, I have come to you, so that you may make known to
me the truth."
106.13 And I, Enoch, answered and said to him: "The Lord will do new
things on Earth, and this I have already seen in a vision, and made known
to you.

(How and when did Enoch "made Methuselah know" about the 'new things' that the "Lord will do on this earth"?)

For in the generation of my father, Jared, some from the height of
Heaven transgressed the word of the Lord.
106.14 And behold, they commit sin and transgress the law,

(What Law? Moses wasn't even born yet, thus the only Law was to Adam and Eve, not to touch or eat of the Tree of good and evil. The Law came with Moses.)

and have been promiscuous with women, and commit sin with them, and have married

(The Bible didn't say anything about promiscuity, just that the sons of God, the Angels took whomever of the daughters of men they wanted as wife's. Besides, why is Enoch telling him about the Angels marrying the daughters of men, when it has nothing to do with Methuselah's grandson?)

106.16 But this child, who has been born to you, will be left on the Earth,
and his three sons will be saved with him. When all the men who are on
the Earth die he and his sons will be saved.
106.17 They will beget on the Earth giants, not of spirit, but of flesh, and
there will be great wrath on Earth, and the Earth will be cleansed of all
corruption

(OK, so When all the men who are on the Earth die, Noah and his sons will be saved., .. and then they will beget on the Earth giants, not of spirit, but of flesh. So is Enoch saying that the Giants are not the offspring of Angels, but of Noah and his three sons??
And it is then that; "there will be great wrath on Earth, and the Earth will be cleansed of all corruption by a deluge"?)

107.2 And now, my son, go, make known to your son Lamech, that this
child that has been born, is truly his son, and this is no lie.
107.3 And when Methuselah had heard the words of his father Enoch - for
he showed him everything which is secret

- he returned, having seen him,
and called the name of that child Noah; for he will comfort the Earth after
all the destruction.

Noah will comfort the earth? I thought Enoch said that he and Noah's three sons will beget giants which will cause 'great wrath' on the earth!?
I'm sorry, but this book can't even follow its own storyline, let alone be Inspired Writing! This was just one chapter, the rest follows the same path of the illuminated ones through divination. It's very similar to the Book of Mormon and a bunch of other New Age books I have read.

If you want, we can start a debate on "The Book of Enoch" and see what others here think? Iron sharpens iron, .. I want to hear what information our fellow debaters have, or come up with? I also depend on your opinions, look forward to them!

God bless you my friend, .. let me know what you think?

Evidence · September 2018

@Erfisflat - I'm still looking for any inconsistencies, with no luck. I'm thinking a lot of things aren't mentioned in the Bible because Enoch had already told the story. Maybe the removal was inspired by the Father, because it wasn't meant for the people at the time, but it was meant for us, now in the end times. Maybe it was satan who saw the removal of Enoch, simply because it didn't fit in his plan, or it revealed too much of it, or even gave us a plan.

Actually the story according to this Enoch is for that time, so people could know not to mingle with the Angels, no?
As for Satan removing the book, or letters of Enoch? Yeah, I could see that, .. and switching it out with this one!

I just read this:

11) THE BOOK OF NOAH

65.1 And in those days, Noah saw the Earth had tilted and that its
destruction was near.

(Seriously?, .. the earth tilted and by this he knew that its destruction was near? This sounds more like a "tilted globe-earth thing"!?

65.2 And he set off from there and went to the ends of the Earth and cried
out to his great-grandfather Enoch; and Noah said three times in a bitter
voice: "Hear me, hear me, hear me!"

Running to the 'ends of the earth' again, .. every time there is trouble!? Here is what the
Bible says: Genesis 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. 9 This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God.
So why would Noah run; "to the ends of the earth" to cry to Enoch, who was gone into Heaven with the Lord? Why are people in this book running to one who has been 'taken' to Heaven by God, .. like before this we seen Lamech asking his father Methuselah to run to the end of the earth to ask Enoch for help?, .. all trusting in Enoch, .. when in Genesis it says; "they were calling upon the name of the Lord"?
Genesis 4:26 And as for Seth, to him also a son was born; and he named him Enosh. Then men began to call on the name of the Lord.

Besides, the Bible clearly says: "Noah walked with God", yet in this book, even the Angels call upon Enoch!? Is he like in the place of God, or the Son of God Word or something, because it sure sounds like it!?

65.3 And he said to him: "Tell me, what is it that is being done on the
Earth, that the Earth is so afflicted and shaken, lest I be destroyed with it!"
65.4 And immediately there was a great disturbance on the Earth and a
voice was heard from Heaven and I fell upon my face.
65.5 And my great-grandfather Enoch came, stood by me, and said to me:
"Why did you cry out to me, with such bitter crying and weeping?

Wow, .. now that's some entrance from Heaven for Enoch to have caused; "a great disturbance on the Earth and a
voice was heard from Heaven and I fell upon my face, .. and my great-grandfather Enoch came!" I guess who needs God when Enoch is now in Heaven, where even the Angels request to have council with him!?

65.6 And a command has gone out from the Lord against those who dwell
upon the dry ground that this must be their end. For they have learnt all the
secrets of the Angels, and all the wrongdoings of the satans, and all their
secret power, and all the power of those who practice magic arts, and the
power of enchantments, and the power of those who cast molten images for
all the Earth.

"The wrongdoings of satan's"?? How many Satan's are there?

65.7 And further, how silver is produced from the dust of the earth and how
soft metal occurs on the earth.
65.8 For lead and tin are not produced from the earth, like the former; there
is a spring which produces them, and an Angel who stands in it, and that
Angel distributes them."
65.9 And after this, my great-grandfather Enoch took hold of me with his
hand, and raised me, and said to me: "Go, for I have asked the Lord of
Spirits about this disturbance on the earth."

?? Silver is produced from the dust of the earth, but lead and tin are no longer, because an Angel who stands in a spring distributes them, .. so that's causing the tilting of the earth which is why this 'Lord of Spirits' is ready to kill everyone on dry land!??
This sounds like the American Indians; "Lord of Spirits"!

65.10 And he said to me: “Because of their iniquity, their judgment has
been completed, and they will no longer be counted before me; because of
the sorceries they have searched out and learnt, the Earth and those who
dwell upon it will be destroyed.
65.11 And for these, there will be no place of refuge, for ever, for they
showed to them what is secret, and they have been condemned; but not so
for you, my son; the Lord of Spirits knows that you are pure and innocent
of this reproach concerning the secrets.

This is just a bunch of made up nonsense

65.12 And he has established your name among the Holy, and will keep
you from amongst those who dwell upon the dry ground; and he has
destined your offspring in righteousness, to be kings, and for great honours.
And from your offspring will flow out a spring of the Righteous and Holy,
without number forever.

Nowhere in the Bible is Noah, or his three sons mentioned that; from his offspring will flow out a spring of the Righteous and Holy, since the earth quickly turned back to its sinful ways! This is what's said about Christ, which this book presents Enoch as a sort of Christ, .. a Mediator between men and even Angels!?

dbox · January 2019

@Joeseph ;

Did you ever respond to my question about the foundation for your moral code by which you can judge the morality of the actions of God?

ethang5 · January 2019

@Joeseph

You say .... You've complained about them not being killed

>My reply ..... I didn’t , but hey you’re a Christian so lying comes easy to you

Obviously dodging comes easily to you too. The women in question weren't killed. You seem to be complaining at them being killed, and left alive. That, my angry friend is silly.

You say .....No I'm wondering which judge declared it to be murder?

>My reply ..... Certainly not you or god who totally approve of the murder of women and children

You can't say who deemed it murder. I guess we are to take your word on it on faith. An act isn't murder just because you say it is Hosea. Argue your points, not declare them.

You say ......But it must be your reading comprehension that is making you think I'm delighted.

>My reply .....So you do diapprove of your gods actions .....oooookay

Your poor reading comprehension is too poor to justify your arrogance.

You say .....You did not answer as to what should be done with them. I wonder why?

>My reply ..... let them live , wonder why you applaud the murder of women and children

Let them live how jasper? Do you have any clue what would happen to a bunch of young girls in the desert without male protection in those days? You must think before you post.

You say ....You haven't a clue what debate is do you?

>My reply ..... Says you with several accounts and you make no sense in any of them

I have only one account and you really shouldn't be talking about making sense. So far, you can't say why you call God's judgement murder. You can't say what should be done with women not killed in war. But you know good sense? OK.

You say .......Emotional arguments may make you feel good, but they aren't winners. Pretend the readers can't see into your head.

>My reply .....Yes, best not get upset over the slaughter of women and children ,

These women weren't slaughtered homer. Yet like the SJW you are, you're still upset. You can't even tell us a viable alternative for the women. You're all outrage and no and no substance.

And when you're asked for substance, all you do is take illegal pot shots at God.

You say .....Any "concession" you can get by lying, you are welcome to.

>My reply .....I haven’t lied yet...

You wrote - "...you disapprove of what your god sanctioned..."

That was your first lie. Your second lie was denying the first lie.

>you cannot type a sentence without doing so

Lol. I have posted your lies.

You say .......Don't worry. We will alert Him that He isn't doing what you like, and I'm sure He will straighten up shortly.

>My reply ......You really mean you will knell on the floor and talk to yourself .....got ya

Bet you'll be happy when He starts doing what you like.

You say ......Really. The nerve of God.

>My reply .....Yeah , the nerve of child killers

Thank goodness we have you, the morality king, to decree what is moral and what is not.

Joe, if you were shooting for idiot, rest easy. You got a bullseye.

Zombieguy1987 · January 2019

Joeseph said:

(Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)
They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.
Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. “Why have you let all the women live?” he demanded. “These are the very ones who followed Balaam’s advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD’s people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

Because if they actually realized just how immoral the bible is, then they'd need to actually use their indoctrinated brains to see the flaws and hypocrisy of the book and god him/herself

YeshuaRedeemed · January 2019

My position is that God is faithful and moral. Debate me!

ethang5 · February 2019

Like all militant anti-theists, when squarely confronted, they run.

Joseph was obviously more comfortable insulting people than being insulted.

Typical.

AlofRI · February 2019

@Joeseph "Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian God ………?
I would compare it to "Company Policy". That policy passed down from the upstairs office by the boss, who never shows up to work, nobody really knows him, nobody's really seen him, there are rumors around that HE showed up a LONG time ago and once, after that, sent HIS son to explain some policy revisions, but, HE died before it was all straightened out. Since then, a lot of lower supervisors have tried to explain the new rules, and why they seem to differ from the original policy, and why, and what the punishment will be if their clarifications are not followed.
This has led to different branches, with interpretations by different "lower supervisors", working under somewhat different policies. It's classic mismanagement and likely to bring about failure of the company. If the boss don't show up soon, it could be chaos between different "companies" (sometimes called war).
I think we just need to do the work on our own, ignore the bosses that never show up, and, as Ellen says, "Be kind to one another."

Dee · February 2019

Good piece and yes “Be kind to one and other” is all we need really

dbox · February 2019

@Joeseph

Hey, just checking in to see if you were able to answer my question. Hope all is well.

Joeseph · February 2019

@dbox

Ask the question again please I cannot see it .

Hope you're happy and well , can you get Ethang to calm down he's a very angry young man

dbox · February 2019

@Joeseph

Thanks for the response! First, @ethang5 has been my "ride or die" on these threads I'm not burning that bridge lol.

My question was, what is the foundation for your moral code that allows you to judge the morality of the actions of God?

Joeseph · February 2019

@dbox

>Thanks for the response!

My pleasure

>First, @ethang5 has been my "ride or die" on these threads I'm not burning that bridge lol.

Ok , he is a very angry young man

>My question was, what is the foundation for your moral code that allows you to judge the morality of the actions of God?

The foundation? A good upbringing in a family home gave me a good start in life .

Of course I can judge anyone's morality against my own as in my moral code is far superior to Hitler's ,Stalins , Allah or The Christian gods .

Now all the above mentioned have me beaten hands down in immorality , the Christian god is a god that's a petulant mass murdering tyrant who approves of slavery, infanticide and mass murder I'm fussy about the company I keep

dbox · February 2019

@Joeseph

Ignoring for now an evaluation of the epithets used for God, how do you know that what you consider moral is actually good? What is your gague for what is right and wrong?

Joeseph · February 2019

@dbox

>What is your gague for what is right and wrong?

The Golden rule works for me

Pretty tragic a theist need a book to tell him right from wrong

dbox · February 2019

@Joeseph

The Golden Rule, Do unto others as you would have them do unto you...Matt 7:12. Good choice in my opinion. What was that you said about how it's tragic we need a book to tell us how to act? lol That verse goes on to say that this teaching is the sum of God's Law in the Old Testament.

So, what made Hitler's actions immoral, and what makes yours moral?

Dee · February 2019

@dbox

Good try , but I afraid you’re attempting to take credit for something that dates back to at least to the early Confucian times and a lot earlier

For a start I didn’t slaughter 20 million Jews

dbox · February 2019

@Dee

Sure, the idea has been around for a long time. The term golden rule generally refers to the bible verse though. Just thought it was ironic.

And why is murder wrong?

Dee · February 2019

@dbox
>Sure, the idea has been around for a long time.

Yes long before the Bible was penned

>The term golden rule generally refers to the bible verse though.

No it doesn’t , but you would say that

>Just thought it was ironic.

Well you are a theistv

>And why is murder wrong?

It works for me, maybe you need to refer to the golden rule and the why becomes ipretty obvious really

ethang5 · February 2019

@dbox

They can't tell you why murder is wrong. They just declare it wrong, and then pretend their declarations are morality.

Here we are trying to debate morality, and the atheist enters the debate claiming that God is immoral!

What standard is he using to judge God? His own.

What makes his standard better?
Things he likes happen.

What is his core complaint?
God doesn't do things his way. God's morality is different from his.

He says God approves of slavery.
But cannot tell you why slavery is wrong, or show on what bases he claims God approves of it.

Because he is right and doesn't need to debate his point. His point was established before he started debating.

But they actually think they are debating and supporting points.

dbox · February 2019

@Dee @Joeseph (Dee jumped in on your arguments Joeseph so I'm just including you in it too)

Yes long before the Bible was penned.

God's Law existed before the Bible was penned and people were aware of it. Just because there was an older recorded writing does not mean that the law originated with them outside of that Law being passed down first from God, then to people. Word spreads fast.

It works for me, maybe you need to refer to the golden rule and the why becomes ipretty obvious really

I agree that it is obvious. But why should someone accept that standard; because it works for you? What if it doesn't work for them? What if the way someone wants to be treated is not good? What if someone, me for example, would prefer that you leave me alone and let me do what I want even if it hurts me or other people. As long as I am happy and free to do what I want, that is my only care. Then that law of action doesn't apply usefully to me or anyone like me and ceases to be a universal truth. If it can not be held to be universally true, then it is not a useful or binding morally. If it is not morally binding, then you can not say that someone "should" act according to that law. You would have to add qualifiers to define what is "good" and "bad" desires relating to how you want to be treated. From that point on you would have to defend by what standard you can say that your definition of good and bad is the proper one. If it is your opinion alone, then anyone else's opinion is equally valid. By that standard, you can not hold anyone accountable for moral wrong, only for doing things with which you disagree. Your assumption is that people always want what is best for them. There are laws in place that restrain people who are a harm to themselves and others. Are those laws wrong, since they are preventing people from treating each other the way they want to be treated? The "golden rule" only functions in light of other guiding factors. Jesus said to treat others the way you want to be treated, for that is the essence of what the moral code of the Old Testament teaches. That moral code or law is objective in its relation to mankind as it was established by the God who created all mankind and set the Laws by which mankind was meant to function. Just as the Laws of physics are set in place in such a way that if any of them are changed the integrity of the universe crumbles, so too are the moral laws fixed so that if they are changed by people the result is separation from God, the giver of life.

Dee · February 2019

@ethang5

>They can't tell you why murder is wrong.

Who is they? Murder is wrong to me because I live by the Golden Rule , you on the other hand have to keep running to the Bible to inform you

>They just declare it wrong

Yeah funny that I think murder is wrong did you ever look the definition up?

> then pretend their declarations are morality.

Im not pretending seriously

>Here we are trying to debate morality,

So am I but you seem to prefer tossing insults about

>and the atheist enters the debate claiming that God is immoral!

I still don’t believe in a god yet I’ve read the Bible more than once , basing my assessment on the words of your god I deem that fictional entity indeed gravely immoral the veracity of my words can be ascertained by a reading of said words by any rational beings

>What standard is he using to judge God? His own.

Its vastly superior to the fictional entity posited by you and others

>What makes his standard better

its vastly superior

>What is his core complaint?

I don’t have one you’re the one losing the cool

>God doesn't do things his way. God's morality is different from his.

I still don’t believe in god

>He says God approves of slavery.

He does and he sanctions , approves and gives laws for its administration

>But cannot tell you why slavery is wrong, or show on what bases he claims God approves of it.

Because I don’t believe in keeping people in chains and beating them as captives I know you guys totally approve

You need to read your Bible son

>Because he is right and doesn't need to debate his point.

Yes I am right unless you can formulate a decent argument instead of tossing of insults, and I’ve debated all my points which you keep running from

>His point was established before he started debating.

I know you were beaten from the start thank you for at last realizing this

>But they actually think they are debating and supporting points.

Well I certainly do and just gave you several points to chew on so put that in your pipe and smoke it

Dee · February 2019

@dbox

>God's Law existed before the Bible was penned and people were aware of it.

Prove a god , then prove his law exited before it was penned

>I agree that it is obvious.

Yes

> But why should someone accept that standard; because it works for you?

But many dont Christians and atheists alike and I have never asked them to do so

> What if it doesn't work for them?

You will have to ask them

> What if the way someone wants to be treated is not good?

I avoid people like that

> What if someone, me for example, would prefer that you leave me alone and let me do what I want even if it hurts me or other people.

Be my guest

>As long as I am happy and free to do what I want, that is my only care.

Fine

>Then that law of action doesn't apply usefully to me or anyone like me and ceases to be a universal truth

The law of the land will jail you if you break the law . I don’t know what the law of action is or the universal truth you’re appealg to

. > If it can not be held to be universally true, then it is not a useful or binding morally.

Prove universal moral truth then from your standpoint

> If it is your opinion alone, then anyone else's opinion is equally valid.

Opinions can be private voice and carry them out in public by breaking the law you face consequences

> By that standard, you can not hold anyone accountable for moral wrong, only for doing things with which you disagree.

Incorrect do wrong get caught you’re punishec

> Your assumption is that people always want what is best for them

I know I do but you don’t? How strange

. >There are laws in place that restrain people who are a harm to themselves and others. Are those laws wrong, since they are preventing people from treating each other the way they want to be treated?

The laws of our lands are fine and suit us , I care not what other people want or do unless it’s harm on me why do you want me to constantly answer for others?

>The "golden rule" only functions in light of other guiding factors.

What other “guiding “ factors

>Jesus said to treat others the way you want to be treated, for that is the essence of what the moral code of the Old Testament teaches.

So what? Many others said it before before and after him .

>That moral code or law is objective in its relation to mankind as it was established by the God who created all mankind and set the Laws by which mankind was meant to function

The Muslims call that god Allah , why do you reject Allah?

. >Just as the Laws of physics are set in place in such a way that if any of them are changed the integrity of the universe crumbles, so too are the moral laws fixed so that if they are changed by people the result is separation from God, the giver of life.

No , I don’t believe that

ethang5 · March 2019

@Dee

They can't tell you why murder is wrong.

>Who is they?

Moron atheists.

>Murder is wrong to me....

No one cares why its wrong to you. We want to know why its wrong. Your opinion is of no interest here.

>because I live by the Golden Rule ,

Hey doofus, when the phrase "golden rule" is used, it is referring to the rule in the Bible.

>you on the other hand have to keep running to the Bible to inform you

If that were true, you would not need to lie.

They just declare it wrong

>Yeah funny that I think murder is wrong did you ever look the definition up?

Morality doesn't depend on definitions homer.

then pretend their declarations are morality.

>Im not pretending seriously

Lol. Really, this moron is not a ringer for me. This is real.

Here we are trying to debate morality,

>So am I but you seem to prefer tossing insults about

I do both.

and the atheist enters the debate claiming that God is immoral!

>I still don’t believe in a god yet I’ve read the Bible more than once , basing my assessment on the words of your god I deem that fictional entity indeed gravely immoral...

Your opinion cannot make anyone immoral, no matter how intensely you hold it.

>the veracity of my words can be ascertained by a reading of said words by any rational beings

Most of the world doesn't think God is immoral, and most of them have read those words. Your position is fringe. How is that if what you claim here is true?

What standard is he using to judge God? His own.

>Its vastly superior to the fictional entity posited by you and others

So you say from your fringe position. I say different.

What makes his standard better

>its vastly superior

When you figure out what makes your standard better, let us know.

What is his core complaint?

>I don’t have one you’re the one losing the cool

Lol. The idiot has forgotten that he claims God is immoral.

God doesn't do things his way. God's morality is different from his.

>I still don’t believe in god

But you do believe in running from a theoretical argument when you get stuck.

He says God approves of slavery.

>He does and he sanctions , approves and gives laws for its administration

So you claim but cannot show.

But cannot tell you why slavery is wrong, or show on what bases he claims God approves of it.

>Because I don’t believe in keeping people in chains and beating them as captives I know you guys totally approve

That only shows how you see yourself, not why slavery is wrong or why you think God approves.

>You need to read your Bible son

I do. But I'm educated, so I don't read it like a biased idiot.

Because he is right and doesn't need to debate his point.

>Yes I am right unless you can formulate a decent argument instead of tossing of insults,

No idiot. You have not been proven right, you have only claimed to be right. You must defend that claim, until you do, I need no argument.

You idiots always think all you have to do is make a claim and then we have to refute it. No sir. If you have no reasoning or logic with your claim, it gets dismissed without argument.

>...and I’ve debated all my points which you keep running from

Simply stating your belief is not debate. Where is your reasoning?

His point was established before he started debating.

>I know you were beaten from the start thank you for at last realizing this

That is why you don't know how to debate. You stupidly think magic established your points before hand.

But they actually think they are debating and supporting points.

>Well I certainly do and just gave you several points to chew on so put that in your pipe and smoke it

Not a single one supported. Why are you on a debate site when you don't know how to debate?

Dee · March 2019

@ethang5

Let’s cut to the chase as all you do is toss out insult after insult and keep asking the same stupid questions again even though I’ve answered them time and time again .

You ask why my morality is better than the Christian gods and I stated because I have not taken part in infanticide, rape or slavery it baffles you to how I could be more moral than a deeply immoral Christian god , here are the verses you claim don’t exist ......

Ethang cannot work out why selling your daughter as a sex slave is immoral

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

Ethang is stunned at me suggesting slavery and rape is immoral

As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

Ethang thinks infanticide is absolutely fine when god is doing

The people of Samaria must bear the consequences of their guilt because they rebelled against their God. They will be killed by an invading army, their little ones dashed to death against the ground, their pregnant women ripped open by swords."

Ethang cannot comprehend how I would think I’m more moral than the Christian god as he needs a book to tell him how to behave ......I wouldn’t use it myself personally

Ethang was asked ......If your god is the source of objective morality can he change his mind on his moral code? he said “yes “ which means it cannot be objective as it changes at his will , if god cannot change his moral code he’s not all powerful this not a god ......

Ethang hilariously claimed the Golden Rule was invented by .....god

Game , set , match again .......new balls please

ethang5 · March 2019

@Dee

>Let’s cut to the chase as all you do is toss out insult after insult and keep asking the same stupid questions again even though I’ve answerered them time and time again.

For you, "cutting to the chase" means dispensing with debate and we simply accepting your baseless claims.

>You ask why my morality is better than the Christian gods and I stated because I have not taken part in infanticide, rape or slavery

But that is stupid homer. That is as stupid as saying, "I more moral because I am not a Jew" The idiot anti-semite, simply declares Jews are immoral, and then calls himself moral because he's not a Jew.

Who made Jews immoral?

You simply call something immoral, declare you haven't done those things, and then call yourself moral for never doing those things.

Who made those things moral?

You can't say. You just feel they are. So what?

>it baffles you to how I could be more moral than a deeply immoral Christian god , here are the verses you claim don’t exist ......

I'm not baffled dweeb. No one is moral because he declares himself moral. You are unable to show what makes your judgement more moral than any other.

What is it that makes slavery, rape, and infanticide immoral?

>Ethang cannot work out why selling your daughter as a sex slave is immoral

This is not a work out site. Your claims will not be "worked out", you will defend them, we will not accept them because you think they are "obvious". If you cannot support your claim, I will dismiss it.

>Ethang is stunned at me suggesting slavery and rape is immoral

Stop speaking for me and address the questions to you. I am asking you first, WHY are slavery and rape immoral?

Second, why is someone who has a different moral code immoral?

You said you knew that no one was obligated to follow your moral code. Yet you call such people immoral. Gain some logic and tell us WHY. We know you think those things are immoral. Now tell us why they are immoral.

>Ethang thinks infanticide is absolutely fine when god is doing

If you had an argument, you wouldn't have to put words into my mouth. As I said, you don't want debate, you want your opinion accepted without debate. I reject your fakery.

Tell us what you think instead of trying to pretend you know what I think.

>Ethang cannot comprehend how I would think I’m more moral than the Christian god as he needs a book to tell him how to behave

I can answer questions to my beliefs. I do not need to fake your position. I can demonstrate you illogical. You still stupidly think simply posting a verse is an argument. It isn't.

O know how you can call yourself more moral. You are full of ignorance and hubris. But this is a debate site, for me to show your stupidity, you must answer questions. That is what you are dodging. But I have been trained for people just like you.

You can squirm and wiggle, I will pin you down. You can run and dodge, I will hunt you down. You aren't at atheist camp anymore.

Things that are "obvious" to you will not be accepted as proof simply because you find it obvious.

>Ethang was asked ......If your god is the source of objective morality can he change his mind on his moral code? he said “yes “ which means it cannot be objective as it changes at his will,

That is not what objective means moron.

>if god cannot change his moral code he’s not all powerful this not a god ......

Untrue. This is a lie because it is illogical.

>Ethang hilariously claimed the Golden Rule was invented by .....god

I said only Christians refer to it as the "Golden Rule". You didn't know that.

>Game , set , match again .......new balls please

You need a brain, not balls.

Again, the questions go unanswered. The idiot cannot or will not argue his point. He wants us to just accept it because it's "obvious".

It's "obvious" to you because you're a moron d-man. And that is also why you're afraid to debate your loony fringe beliefs.

Dee · March 2019

>For you, "cutting to the chase" means dispensing with debate and we simply accepting your baseless claims.

Incorrect my claims are valid you’ve simply no defence

>But that is stupid homer. That is as stupid as saying, "I more moral because I am not a Jew" The idiot anti-semite, simply declares Jews are immoral, and then calls himself moral because he's not a Jew.

Its not “stupid “ you clot you forget to mention I stated “more moral than your god who killed 2 million plus

>You simply call something immoral, declare you haven't done those things, and then call yourself moral for never doing those things.

Yeah funny that so you cannot say if the Holocaust was immoral and you cannot say that your moral code was better that Hitlers ......You really are a dumass son

>You can't say. You just feel they are. So what?

What a thicko you are of course I can say “ it’s wrong to murder babies “ you don’t know this why’s that son?

.>I’m not baffled dweeb. No one is moral because he declares himself moral.

Well Im certainly superior to a mass murderer like God

>You are unable to show what makes your judgement more moral than any other.

I keep telling you idiot but you don’t get I’ve never slaughtered others

>What is it that makes slavery, rape, and infanticide immoral?

Ethang cannot work out why selling your daughter as a sex slave is immoral

>This is not a work out site. Your claims will not be "worked out", you will defend them, we will not accept them because you think they are "obvious". If you cannot support your claim, I will dismiss it.

Ok sell your daughter as a sex slave have her raped and ask her how she knows these actions were immoral, no doubt you would support the rapist

Ethang is stunned at me suggesting slavery and rape is immoral

>Stop speaking for me and address the questions to you. I am asking you first, WHY are slavery and rape immoral

People have a right not to be raped and enslaved I know you disagree but I’m morally superior to you

>Second, why is someone who has a different moral code immoral?

Like Hitler so what? I know you agree gassing Jews is cool but hey I’m not “hip” with that son

>You said you knew that no one was obligated to follow your moral code. Yet you call such people immoral. Gain some logic and tell us WHY. We know you think those things are immoral. Now tell us why they are immoral.

How many different ways can I explain it slow Joe have you a learning difficulty?

Ethang thinks infanticide is absolutely fine when god is doing

Ethang has cannot comprehend how I would think I’m more moral than the Christian god as he needs a book to tell him how to behave

>O know how you can call yourself more moral. You are full of ignorance and hubris. But this is a debate site, for me to show your stupidity, you must answer questions. That is what you are dodging. But I have been trained for people just like you.

I’ve whipped your butt quit whining son

>You can squirm and wiggle, I will pin you down. You can run and dodge, I will hunt you down. You aren't at atheist camp anymore.

But you’re the one just firing off insult after insult and nothing else

>Things that are "obvious" to you will not be accepted as proof simply because you find it obvious.

Well turn that back on yourself son

Ethang was asked ......If your god is the source of objective morality can he change his mind on his moral code? he said “yes “ which means it cannot be objective as it changes at his will,

> That is not what objective means moron.

Ah right , so thank you for confirming you mean subjective morality

if god cannot change his moral code he’s not all powerful this not a god ......

>Untrue . This is a lie because it is illogical.

So he cannot change his moral code then he’s not all powerful.....whipped again son

Ethang hilariously claimed the Golden Rule was invented by .....god

>I only said only Christians refer to it as the "Golden Rule". You didn't know that.

No you didn’t you liar , and of course I knew it was in the Bible you didn’t because you’ve never read a bible

Game , set , match again .......new balls please

>Again, the questions go unanswered. The idiot cannot or will not argue his point. He wants us to just accept it because it's "obvious".

Yet there’s another 17 answers to go with the 60 odd and all you keep saying is “but,buh that’s stupid “

>It's "obvious" to you because you're a moron d-man. And that is also why you're afraid to debate your loony fringe beliefs.

There you go again with your only response after yet another whipping “ buh , buh that’s stupid , you’re a moron , you’re afraid “

One thing I’ve noted everyone on here whips your and your go to “defence “ is the usual “ buh , buh that’s stupid “ .......

so do tell I bet you’re a Southern Baptist bible thumping Trump lover ......how do your lot attract all the loonies son?

ethang5 · March 2019

You simply call something immoral, declare you haven't done those things, and then call yourself moral for never doing those things.

>Yeah funny that so you cannot say if the Holocaust was immoral and you cannot say that your moral code was better that Hitlers

......You really are a dumass son

Hey stupid. Simply saying your moral code is better than Hitler means nothing.

Anyone can say that. Stop being an idiot.

The question you're still running from is....

Why is murder wrong?

You: Well..stutter... Errr....how can you....wow... Ethan doesn't know murder is wrong.

Me: I know why murder is wrong. You seem not to have a clue why it's wrong.

You: [Does cartoon chicken impression]

Me: You are a dodging douchebag. Not even worth insulting.

When you are off your recreational.... things, and can think, hit us up.

sear · March 2019

Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible ?

"Dear Dr. Laura,

Thank you so much for trying to educate people regarding god's law. I have learned a great deal from you, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can.

When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:12 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

But I need some advice from you, regarding some of the other specific laws and how best to follow them.

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the lord (Leviticus 1:9), the problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with this?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery as suggested by Exodus 21:7. What do you think a fair price would be? I know I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Leviticus 19:24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking. But some women take offense. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I obliged morally to kill him myself, or may I hire a hit-man?

I know you have studied these things extensively, and so I am confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that god's word is eternal, & unchanging."

Dee · March 2019

>You simply call something immoral, declare you haven't done those things, and then call yourself moral for never doing those things.

Yeah funny that so you cannot say if the Holocaust was immoral and you cannot say that your moral code was better that Hitlers

>Hey stupid. Simply saying your moral code is better than Hitler means nothing.Anyone can say that. Stop being an idiot.

Oh so you don’t know that slaughtering 20 million Jews is immoral

>The question you're still running from is....

No one is running except you

>Why is murder wrong?

A tough one because I’m depriving someone of their right to live and as I’ve told you 43 times now I follow the Golden Rule ...Do you know what that is you dummy?

>Me: I know why murder is wrong. You seem not to have a clue why it's wrong.

You don’t , unless you study a bible or pray to god for “ guidance “

>Me: You are a dodging douchebag. Not even worth insulting.

Wow ! A doucebag how very Christian of you , I bet you were at church today head bowed and wringing your hands as you pray being the hypocrite you are .....and you see yourself as .....moral

AlofRI · March 2019

Whew! A LOT of stuff to get to the bottom of this one. That's why I'm a atheist, all I have to worry about, or practice, is common sense and human compassion. Mythology, with all its killing, rape, destruction, etc. is depressing at best. Then, after dozens, hundreds, thousands are killed we talk about "God's love". I'd rather just forget the whole thing and figure out how we can stop Christians from killing Muslims and vice-versa, Jews from killing Muslims and vice-versa. If GOD OR ALLAH would only show up and straighten the whole thing out, wouldn't that be great??

Hmmm, maybe not … with HIS strange kind of "love", it just may start all over again. Guess I'll stick to the common sense and human compassion thingy. Does that make me all bad???

sear · March 2019

Beginners learn to play chess by learning how each piece moves on the board.

Grand chess masters know chess by having memorized an enormous history of games, and learning the moves and counter-moves associated with them.

Surely we can "wing it" through life, just rely on our own hope at spur of the moment.

But there's great value in moral teachings. It goes beyond entertainment / story telling. It has utility. Who is not edified by Solomon's proposal to split the baby? It's a losing argument to argue against education.

ethang5 · March 2019

@Dee

You simply call something immoral, declare you haven't done those things, and then call yourself moral for never doing those things.

>Yeah funny that so you cannot say if the Holocaust was immoral and you cannot say that your moral code was better that Hitlers

Hey stupid. Simply saying your moral code is better than Hitler means nothing. Anyone can say that. Stop being an idiot.

>Oh so you don’t know that slaughtering 20 million Jews is immoral

What I know is not the issue dodger. I'm asking you why it is immoral.

The question you're still running from is

Why is murder wrong?

>A tough one because I’m depriving someone of their right to live and as I’ve told you 43 times now I follow the Golden Rule ...Do you know what that is you dummy?

Soooo, murder, which is, "depriving someone of their right to live, is immoral because it is depriving someone of their right to live?

Lol. And you're the atheist 's great hope of a genius?

Changing "murder" to "depriving someone of their right to live" only says murder is immoral because murder is immoral. Circular thinking.

You and your idiot fellow atheists can't see that yet, but odds are at least one of you has an IQ above 75. One of you will eventually get it.

Me: I know why murder is wrong. You seem not to have a clue why it's wrong.

>You don’t , unless you study a bible or pray to god for “ guidance “

OK. Still I know, which is why you're the one dodging and I'm the one holding your feet to the fire.

Me: You are a dodging douchebag. Not even worth insulting.

>Wow ! A doucebag how very Christian of you,

Thanks. Now you know how the douchebags Jesus whipped felt. Feels different to when you insult Christians doesn't it?

> bet you were at church today head bowed and wringing your hands as you pray being the hypocrite you are .....and you see yourself as .....moral

The only morality I'm concerned with is God's. I couldn't care less about your stupid, subjective, circular morality calling me immoral.

The question still stands Douchy.

Why is depriving someone of their right to live immoral?

You idiots huddle. Maybe 5 atheist brains can work it out.

ethang5 · March 2019

@Dee

Something needs to work in your favor because rational argument sure isn't.

You're so dumb, you think I'm "stunned" when I ask you a question in a debate. Or thaty question means I'm searching for answers because I don't know.

You can't use your brain, so you report. Just as I said, you are weak and petty.

You and your sock puppet go around insulting Christians, but if you get slapped back, you go whining to the mods like a coward bully.

Grow up Mr. More Moral than God but doesn't know what morality is.

Dee · March 2019

@ethang5

THE FURIOUS VICIOUS CHRISTIAN TROLL ETHANG HAS ASKED THE SAME QUESTION REPEATEDLY NOW 53 TIMES I’VE EXPLAINED PATIENTLY 53 TIMES

HERE IS THE FURIOUS VICIOUS TROLL ETHANG BEING TOLD YET AGAIN .....WATCH HIS STUNNED INCOMPREHENSION AS HE ASKS YET AGAIN .........”BUH ,BUH WHY IS MURDER WRONG “

My reply (54th ) Children as young as 4 understand this concept where I’m from why can’t you?

Atheists mostly follow the Golden Rule

Murder is wrong because as an atheist I treat others as you would want them to treat you, and can reasonably expect them to want to be treated.

Be mindful of the consequences of all your actions and recognize that you must take responsibility for them.

Murder deprives another of the life they are entitled too.

This explanation totally stuns ETHANG as he wishes to know how an atheist can reach these decisions without praying or consulting a Bible

ETHANGS REFUSES TO ANSWER QUESTIONS HE SAID “I’M NOT HERE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS PLACE IS “?

Ethang said god “invented “the Golden Rule he refuses to explain this merely answering “ because I said so “

Ethang doesn’t know what objective morality as he refuses to define it

Ethang says he doesn’t know what morality is without praying to god or reading the Bible for guidance , he refuses to define it

Ethang said there is a god because he said so he refuses to explain why

Ethang said there are no other gods that’s stoopid Ethang refuses to says why

Ethang said “ slavery, rape and infanticide were not in the Bible anyone that thinks so is stoopid “ a real Christian dbox disagrees with Ethangs “assessment “

Ethang said nothing is in the Bible unless he says so

Ethang said Atheists cannot be moral because they don’t pray or consult the Bible Ethang said this is because he says so

Dee · March 2019